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Original muzzleloader hunting/shooting ??

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Critter Getter

45 Cal.
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How many of you shoot and/or hunt with original old muzzleloaders? I recently bought my first non-reproduction type black powder rifle. It looks like trigger work and a new nipple is in order to make it shoot. Do many hunt and shoot the old ones? Greg
 
I don't, but shoot with a fair number who use originals. Smoothbores dominate, because it's awfully hard to find decent bores on old rifles.

Come to think of it, there's only one rifle in about a dozen originals I can count.
 
Most of my hunting and shooting is done with replicas, but I occasionally hunt with original 12 ga. and 10 ga. SxS percussion shotguns and a flintlock smooth rifle in 28 ga./.55 cal. I get an added pleasure from taking game with the old ones. Makes 'em taste better, too, don't know how. :wink:

Spence
 
I posted some pics of a rifle in the Identification part of this forum. I think it is a small caliber and basically looks to be pretty decent condition. Looks to be a flintlock converted to percussion. I am going to have it checked out before ever attempting to shoot it. I bought it to shoot but didn't know if that was the smart thing to do. (I have been known to do a stupid thing or two in my life) :doh: Greg. :grin:
 
I shoot an original Birminghsm double percussion shotgun and have shot an original West Virginia percussion squirrel rifle. Both solidly breeched and with rough but serviceable bores.
 
I occasionally shoot an original model 1861 Springfield. I keep the loads on the light side.
 
I had a .36 origanal precussion rifle that shot ok. However I was afraid of harming it when I took it afield. I traded it off, and it hangs on a wall now. I was never comfortable with it. Any harm to it would be unreplaceable. but, I have a 120 year old HBC blanket I use. It too is unreplaceable if harmed.
No, there is no logic in my thinking.
 
Back in 1976, the third ML I ever purchased was an original .36 Cal. Ca. 1850 half stock percussion rifle. It was more accurate than anyone could shoot it and it was THE most forgiving rifle I have ever owned as to shooting a couple different ball sizes and patch sizes with the same accuracy. Now, I never shot it beyond 50 yards, but out to and at that range it would almost drive tacks. I only shot it on the target range or in matches, because it was an original.

Original guns I have shot include but probably not limited to:

1. A Flint and a Percussion Hall Rifles
2. A few M1822/30 Muskets
3. A few Percussion Ohio and Indiana Rifles, calibers ranged from .40 to .48.
4. A M1842 Musket
5. Various "UnCivil War" rifled muskets and carbines, including a couple Smith Carbines and one converted Spencer Rifle.

Original guns I have repaired and were shot in National or International Competition:
1. The oldest was an original Japanese Tanagashima owned by a member of the Japanese Team and a couple for the U.S. Team.
2. A few flint pistols including one owned by the French Team Captain - it was an original Nicolas Boutet Flintlock saw handled dueling/target pistol.
3. A Percussion Medium High grade Jaeger rifle, owned by the Wife of the Swiss Team Captain.
4. A Percussion Underhammer Target Rifle
5. A Real/Original Rogers and Spencer Revolver
6. About a dozen original Smith Carbines
7. A M1836 Waters and Johnson Flint Pistol
8. A M1841 Mississippi Rifle, though I don't remember the lock date
9. An Original Flint Model 1840 Musket, I was shocked it had never been converted to percussion
10. Various "UnCivil" War period Rifle Muskets and Carbines
There were more, but the ones above stand out in my memory.

Gus
 
Wow, that is some memory Gus!! Sounds like you have had a lot of fun thus far in your life!! Greg :grin:
 
Greg,

I was extremely fortunate my best friend in life was also one of my first mentors in muzzleloading. He owned many of the original guns I shot, including the Hall Rifles. He had a determination that every original gun he owned, he would shoot at least one time. Might never have shot it again, but he shot it at least once. I think the only exception he ever made to that rule was the Civilian Hall Flintlock rifle he bought many years later.

In 1978, he finally found an original rimfire cartridge that was capable of being fired in one of his Civil War Carbines. I sheepishly have to admit I don't remember which one, but it was one of the more unusual ones. Anyway, he paid the princely sum of $ 32.00 for that cartridge, just so he could shoot that carbine. He invited my wife and I and a few other friends to the Shooting Ceremony, but the caveat was we had to dress up in whatever our best Muzzleloading Uniform or outfit we had.

At the appointed time and date, Mike was dressed in his best Dress War of 1812 Sergeant's Uniform including white dress gloves. He met us at the parking lot and we did not know he had set things up already. He led us to a shooting table that had an expensive new red blanket covering it and on the blanket was that Carbine and his most recently purchased Hall Flintlock Rifle. However on another shooting table set off to the side, it was covered in a very fine linen tablecloth. On the tablecloth there were fine crystal wine goblets and a Sterling Silver Champagne Bucket with a glistening white cloth napkin that completely wrapped bottle of wine.

We all got into a good viewing position and watched while he fired that single $ 32.00 cartridge. Then he loaded and fired the Flint Hall and invited any of us who wished to shoot it, to come up and do so. After two or three of us fired the Hall, that was the end of the shooting. (To my knowledge, he never fired that Hall rifle again when he passed over 30 years later.)

Then he walked to the other table, turned his back while he opened the wine and filled our glasses. He wrapped the bottle back up with the gleaming white napkin and put it back in the Silver Champagne bucket. He then offered everyone to join him at the "other" shooting table and passed the glasses to the Ladies and Men, while asking to wait for the toast. He offered a toast to the guns and men who had made and used them. Now I was certainly no wine connoisseur, but something didn't taste right. Then one of the other guys made a sarcastically funny comment that only my friend would go to that much of a lavish ceremony and serve Cold Turkey as the wine. My friend blushed and remarked something like, "Well, after spending $ 32.00 on one cartridge, I did not have a lot of money to spend on the wine." (That was not really true, he just enjoyed playing a little practical joke with the wine.) We all laughed at the time and many times since, about that event.

Gus
 
I shoot and hunt with several original rifles and shotguns. I was using a greener over the weekend for pheasants.

I always wonder if greener ever thought in his wildest dreams if his guns would be shooting pheasants in iowa so many years latter

Fleener
 
I had an old chunk gun from the 1870s that I shot for several years. From the bench it kept groups under 2 inches at 100 yds. It had 9 groove rifling, so I figured the bore was old, since most bore and relies use an even number of grooves.
 
My first muzzleloader is an original 32 caliber rifle, made in Ohio. The half stock rifle was made by a WS Ford, I figure he was from a family of gunsmiths that lived in the region, as I find many Ford gunsmiths listed in that region. The barrel was made by a James Little, who had a shop in Cincinnati in 1850. It's a nice tack driver in great condition, reason I don't use it much now is that it is hard to hear the hits on the targets. Tips the scales at around 11 lbs. My go to rifles are bigger, like a 50 cal.
 
I haven't but have a friend who owns an original Hawken and hunts with it. I have held it but never shot with it. :(
The international matches require the use of original guns. Our own Squire Robin has shot many originals.
BTW, what is the definition of "original"? Where is the cut-off line?
Back in the day, if an apprentice made a rifle as identical as his masters rifle would that be a replica or an original?
 
At the 1980 World Championship's of the International Muzzle Loading Committee (I.M.L.C.) held at Quantico, VA - they were not allowing any reproduction guns in those matches. However, Herschel House brought a number of folks dressed as Riflemen/Long Hunters who shot a Flintlock Team match with reproduction long rifles for an exhibition. They would have won the match with their score, had reproductions been allowed.

Not long after that, the I.M.L.C. authorized a "carbon copy" of all their matches and one could use reproductions. The matches where originals were shot were still considered more "prestigious," but at least reproductions could be fired since then.

As of the World Championships at Wedgnock, UK in 1998, the I.M.L.C.'s definition of "original" required an original lock and barrel, though IF the barrel was "re-rifled," it had to comply with the period rifling style. One of our Team Members had such a gun that failed "Scrutiny" (or the official inspection) because the rifling was supposedly not correct for the period of the rifle - even though it had been "freshed" or re-rifled in the 19th century. After I heard that, I asked to see the rifling and was highly upset because there was nothing wrong with the rifling for an early 19th century flint rifle, which that was. I was heading to the "Scrutiny" Area to argue with them, when our Team Captain stopped me and informed me he had already lodged an Official protest. That was the second time in that match that I was on my way to the Scrutiny Tent and our Team Captain had to stop me, the first was when a German deliberately broke the half cock on one of our Team Member's guns while "testing" it. Oh, was I riled up over that!!! I was able to fix it for our Team Member, though. We made sure he did not go back to the Judge who broke it and yes, I was standing there while it was inspected the second time by another Judge and it passed.

Oh, to pass as an original in that competition, it was not required the barrel and lock were made by the same maker. Everything else like a new stock and repro furniture were allowed as long as they were "correct" for the gun. I was surprised they allowed a new stock, but that is how they wrote the rules.

We even had one Team Member who shot a percussion single barrel pistol that had been cobbled together out of old mixed parts, probably in the late 19th or early 20th century. To be kind, it was not a pretty gun, but it shot extremely well. Even though it passed by the rules, I was a little surprised it passed Scrutiny with no problems.

Gus
 
OH, a P.S. on the original locks. New made parts were allowed in the locks as long as they were correct for the period of the lock. Actually, I think a replacement cock or percussion hammer were also allowed as long as they were correct for the lock as well.

Gus
 
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