Opinions on Siler and L&R Locks

[BE Wild Willy]

I've been looking at a couple of different semi-custom flintlocks, one has a Large Siler lock, the other has a L&R Late English "Waterproof" lock. What are the pros and cons for these two locks?

Thanks for your input...BEWW

 

[Johnny Too-Tall]

I always always always use the large siler lock. I have nothing but good things to say about them. I haven't used the L/R so i cant offer anything on it. But a large siler with a good flint, with a white lightning liner and you will be happy.

 

[Birddog6]

Rather than get into a lock basking thread.......

Personal opinion.... If you want a super working lock, right out of the box. Buy a Chambers built lock, be it a Siler, Ketland, English, VA, whatever. LIFETIME WARRANTY, tho you most likely will never need it. I have used dozens of them with great success.... :thumbsup:

And that is from personal experience of building rifles & from using many Chambers Locks, Davis Locks & L&R Locks. The Chambers locks are by far "top dog" for me.

Keith Lisle

PS: Just because it is a Siler, doesn't mean it is a Chambers built Siler lock. Being a Siler is just a style of lock, says nothing for the builder & his talent. You can buy a Siler kit & build it yourself, but that doesn't mean it is a good lock, built properly, or will be reliable. It just means it is a Siler style of lock.

 

[ebiggs1]

The Siler is best as long as it is a Chambers. :thumbsup:
There is no doubt. But it must be by Chambers.
I have had to send every L&R lock I bought back, 100%, to get a second chance. Once they get that 2nd look, they work pretty well.

 

[Rifleman1776]

There are Silers and then there are Silers. As said, depends on the builder. Chambers has an excellent reputation.
I have had great success with L&R locks.
I have had very dissapointing experience with Davis locks.
Pick yer pizzen. Don't be shy about sending back if not up to snuff.

 

[jdkerstetter]

You don't allude to the style of the rifles these locks are used on. This is important too. For example, if they are Southern Mountain/Tennessee rifles go with the one with the English style lock as it is proper for that type of rifle.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

A well tuned lock is a joy. L&R quality is good but still sort of hit or miss between good and excellent. I have guns from the cheapest Spanish lock through Siler, Davis, L&R and some I have never seen a second for. Sometimes even the best quality lock needs a little tweaking by a knowledgeable smith. Certainly Chambers has the best reputation. Flintlocks have more critical technical tolerances and working points than percussion locks.

 

[BE Wild Willy]

I've seen a Garner with the Siler, and two TVM guns by Avance, one with a Siler, the other with the L&R. I'm not up on all the different styles yet, although the one with the L&R appears to be a Leman.

All of these guns are used.

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

I have 3 Silers not built by Chambers but by TVM and all needed work to function properly. I have one Chambers Virginia lock that worked flawlessly from the first spark. As jdkerstetter alluded to the style of lock for the type of rifle it is on may not be too important to you now but it may become so as you get further and further into this avocation. So do just a little research on the style of rifle you are looking at and what locks were most prevalently use with it. You will be much happier down the line, in my opinion.

 

[hanshi]

I have three guns with TVM built Silers and they are about as reliable as it gets. I always know when I pull the trigger on any of those three guns I'll get spontaneous ignition.

I also have two guns with two different Chambers locks and they are as reliable as the Silers. Never tried an L&R or Davis lock but a hunting partner has an L&R lock on his self-built rifle and it sparks every bit as well as the Chambers. The only bad experience I've ever had with a flint lock is a Pedersoli pennsylvania lock. Never could get it to work properly.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Rather than get into a lock basking thread.......

Personal opinion.... If you want a super working lock, right out of the box. Buy a Chambers built lock, be it a Siler, Ketland, English, VA, whatever. LIFETIME WARRANTY, tho you most likely will never need it. I have used dozens of them with great success.... :thumbsup:

And that is from personal experience of building rifles & from using many Chambers Locks, Davis Locks & L&R Locks. The Chambers locks are by far "top dog" for me.

Keith Lisle

PS: Just because it is a Siler, doesn't mean it is a Chambers built Siler lock. Being a Siler is just a style of lock, says nothing for the builder & his talent. You can buy a Siler kit & build it yourself, but that doesn't mean it is a good lock, built properly, or will be reliable. It just means it is a Siler style of lock.

Ditto to Keith's post and JD'S caveat about gun styles.

 

[F.G. Ford]

I have had both Siler and L&R
Chambers locks are great.
But if you are building or are a serious shooter, you have to get to know your locks to keep them working.
The best way is to disassemble them, clean them, polish the friction surfaces, remove all burrs and casting marks.
Also polishing the springs helps too.( lengthwise )
The inside of your lock should be almost mirror finish, but DO NOT round edges
That being the case L&R locks will hold their own with the best of them.
One thing that one lock supplier has over another is style and size ( your choice )
All the best
Old Ford

 

[Capt. Jas.]

An L&R has a 50/50 chance of being a little better than a "Siler" clone put together by a monkey but my buddy had to use a lefty L&R round face English for a build and is having multiple problems. He will need to make his own mainspring and much other work.

 

[sleeperNY]

I have rifles with both Siler and L&R locks. One Siler is by Chambers and the other (much older) is not. I always disassemble them and polish before they ever get used. I have never had a problem with any of them.

Jim

 

[BE Wild Willy]

I noticed that the L&R Late English has a much smaller pan than the Siler. Will this have any effect on ignition?

How can you tell if a Siler lock is by Chambers?

Does anyone know who manufactured the Siler locks for an older Garner gun?

 

[jdkerstetter]

Externally the Siler pan appears bigger but the pan is pretty shallow. The Late English pan is deeper and likely holds as much if not more powder. Short of going to the shop and digging each out that's the best I can do.

Both are fine locks. I have two Late English locks and several large and small Silers. Either will serve you well.

As far as identifying a Chambers' Siler over another, you won't find Chambers' name on one and without knowing each of their assembly peoples' individual marks, it can be impossible to tell. The Chambers' and Davis Silers even use the same cock screws now.

I have been told that one clue is that if the head on the screw that holds the cock to the tumbler is domed it was probably assembled by someone other than Chambers or Davis....as I understand it Chambers's kits have a domed screw instead of the flat one...but that could be bunk. And besides, there are some very good people outside Chambers that are assembling Silers.

Good Luck, J.D.

 

[Dphar]

I've been looking at a couple of different semi-custom flintlocks, one has a Large Siler lock, the other has a L&R Late English "Waterproof" lock. What are the pros and cons for these two locks?

Thanks for your input...BEWW

Chambers locks are better no question.
The Guild I am a member of ordered 10-11 locks from Chambers of various types and they were all good to go out of the box. With L&R its not a sure thing in my experience.
This said there is an L&R I use for pistols and like a lot, it probably the best FL pistol lock readily available however, they may require considerable work.


Dan

 

[Zonie]

So far, I've had good luck with my L&R locks but they were bought about 10-20 years ago.

There was a time about 6-8 years ago that their quality sunk and there are many people who bought their locks during that period.
This raised them to the top of a lot of Fecal Lists in those peoples minds.

I've heard they fixed their quality problems but I don't know this from first hand experience.

As was mentioned, Siler locks built by Chambers (who owns Sylers design) are excellent.
Because Chambers also sells lock "kits" one can build their own "Siler" lock.

This has resulted in some very fine locks and some really not so fine Siler locks out there.

On the off chance that the Siler in question may have been built by who knows who, it's a good idea to fully inspect the lock before buying it.

This inspection should include trying to scrape a scratch in the tumbler.
The springs come fully hardened and tempered but the tumbler (and frizzen) require heat treatment to work correctly.
If the builder didn't heat threat these parts correctly, the lock will rapidly wear out.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

AND there are also pirated copies of the Siler that have parts that do not interchange with others

 

[Jason Lewis]

i have two L and R locks. one flint that i've never had a problem with and one percussion that i've had to get a new tumbler for. the other one wasn't hardened at all and wore out during the building process. they replaced the tumbler for free.