old Hawken rifle book

[holzwurm]

Have a chance to pick up a used copy of "Hawken Rifles: The mountain etc, etc". Is this a direct work of Bairds research and considered an authority of the style.

 

[LRB]

Yes. He also had another one after that one. "Fifteen Years in the Hawken Lode".

 

[BigSkyRambler]

Buy them. I foolishly sold mine a few years back.

 

[OldMaineWoodsman]

And a third book titled "Who's Who in Buckskins" profiling modern builders and characters.

 

[garypl]

I believe I still have both of these volumes stuck away on a shelf that I can’t access until I clean up my storage area. Bought them in mid-70’s - coincidentally I was just talking with my friend about these and the old “Muzzleloading Caplock Rifle” by Ned Roberts- I think this is also squirreled away with the Hawken books!

 

[Notchy Bob]

Baird's Hawken books are classics. He was not always entirely correct, and a number of Hawken rifles have come to light since his books were published, but the information he gathered was the best and most complete that was available at the time, and his books still make the best available foundation for a personal reference library on Hawken rifles and the early western frontier.

By all means, buy both of his books if you can.

Somebody really ought to reprint them, warts and all. They are classics.

Notchy Bob

 

[BP Addict]

I got mine from AbeBooks:

https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Se...ird&sts=t&cm_sp=SearchF-_-TopNavISS-_-Results
The one with "the Mountain Man's Choice" in the title is his first book and should be read in that order with "Fifteen Years" being second.

I bought Hanson's book there also.

Good Luck and good reading!

Walt

 

[Notchy Bob]

Charles Hanson's book is still in print (or back in print) and available from the Museum of the Fur Trade Shop for fifteen dollars: The Hawken Rifle: Its Place in History

The current version does have a different cover than the original.

If you are really becoming a hard-core Hawken buff, you'll also want to get a copy of The Plains Rifle, also by Charles Hanson and currently out of print, and Victor Paul's Missouri Gunsmiths to 1900, which is still available from Amazon for $25. However, I suspect these may be "new old stock," and I'm not certain this book is still in print. It has a good section on the Hawken brothers, but there is also a tremendous amount of information about their various competitors in the firearms market. Plenty of pictures, too. There were a lot of gunsmiths in Missouri in those days.

Notchy Bob

 

[BP Addict]

with frewe shippingCharles Hanson's book is still in print (or back in print) and available from the Museum of the Fur Trade Shop for fifteen dollars: The Hawken Rifle: Its Place in History

The current version does have a different cover than the original.

If you are really becoming a hard-core Hawken buff, you'll also want to get a copy of The Plains Rifle, also by Charles Hanson and currently out of print, and Victor Paul's Missouri Gunsmiths to 1900, which is still available from Amazon for $25. However, I suspect these may be "new old stock," and I'm not certain this book is still in print. It has a good section on the Hawken brothers, but there is also a tremendous amount of information about their various competitors in the firearms market. Plenty of pictures, too. There were a lot of gunsmiths in Missouri in those days.

Notchy Bob

I wouldn't say I'm becoming a Hawken Buff as much as I love reading about the history of various types of muzzleloaders.

I have Hanson's Plains Rifle Book (unread) but I just have to dig it out. I've also read his NW Trade Gun Book. I'll keep an eye out for Missouri Gunsmiths. A couple of months back, I ordered Dillion's Kentucky Rifle and Kindig's Thoughts on.... (both used), then was told that the 4th edition has colored photos! I can't imagine how much that one would set me back. The one I received was $99 with free shipping and was the cheapest one I could find.

Thanks, Bob!

Walt

 

[William Sublette]

And a third book titled "Who's Who in Buckskins" profiling modern builders and characters.

I found one of these in a box of books from an estate.


A handful of the guys had autographed the page they were on.

 

[The Crisco Kid]

I believe I still have both of these volumes stuck away on a shelf that I can’t access until I clean up my storage area. Bought them in mid-70’s - coincidentally I was just talking with my friend about these and the old “Muzzleloading Caplock Rifle” by Ned Roberts- I think this is also squirreled away with the Hawken books!

These 3 books were required reading in the '70's. I still have mine and thumb through them once in awhile.

 

[BP Addict]

I found one of these in a box of books from an estate.


A handful of the guys had autographed the page they were on.

You lucky dog!!!!

Walt

 

[Rod Man]

Charles Hanson's book is still in print (or back in print) and available from the Museum of the Fur Trade Shop for fifteen dollars: The Hawken Rifle: Its Place in History

The current version does have a different cover than the original.

If you are really becoming a hard-core Hawken buff, you'll also want to get a copy of The Plains Rifle, also by Charles Hanson and currently out of print, and Victor Paul's Missouri Gunsmiths to 1900, which is still available from Amazon for $25. However, I suspect these may be "new old stock," and I'm not certain this book is still in print. It has a good section on the Hawken brothers, but there is also a tremendous amount of information about their various competitors in the firearms market. Plenty of pictures, too. There were a lot of gunsmiths in Missouri in those days.

Notchy Bob

Appreciate it Notch!

Just ordered the 1st recommendation.

Since I picked up the Selb my interest has peaked a bit.

Thanks,

RM

 

[Notchy Bob]

Have a chance to pick up a used copy of "Hawken Rifles: The mountain etc, etc". Is this a direct work of Bairds research and considered an authority of the style.

Getting back to the original question, John Baird was considered THE authority on Hawken rifles in the sixties and seventies, and well into the eighties. Charles Hanson probably knew as much, but I always believed he wrote and published his own book as a response to Baird, in an effort to "set the record straight" regarding a few details. Hanson's book is very comprehensive, well researched, and nicely illustrated, but I always found it rather dry reading. Baird had a more easygoing style.

Horace Kephart was probably the first 20th century "Hawken buff" to get published. He wrote a couple of magazine articles and a short monograph detailing the history of the Hawken shop, as he understood it, and his own personal experience field testing a classic original Hawken mountain rifle that had been not been sold. This monograph is embedded in a book of Kephart's writing which was republished a few years ago. I found a hardback, leather-bound copy on Abe Books for $25 about two years ago. I grabbed it quick!

James Serven wrote a frequently-cited article about Hawkens for the American Rifleman, I think some time in the 1940's. I have not read it. I believe Mr. Serven also penned a couple of articles for Guns magazine in the 1950's, but these don't seem to have gotten as much attention. Then, a professional artist, blackpowder enthusiast, and collector named John Barsotti wrote a two-part article for Gun Digest, I think for the 1954 and 1955 editions, entitled "Mountain Men and Mountain Rifles." I have read those articles, although not recently, and thought they were pretty good. I always liked Mr. Barsotti's artwork, too.

Anyway, discerning 20th century gun nuts were certainly aware of Hawken rifles and their importance on the frontier, but it was Baird's series of articles in Muzzle Blasts magazine, I think maybe starting around 1966, that really ignited the interest of blackpowder shooters in general. His articles were later assembled into the book, "Hawken Rifles: The Mountain Man's Choice." I would consider Mr. Baird's books themselves to be historically significant.

His second book, "Fifteen Years in the Hawken Lode," had some more information about Hawken firearms, but included a lot of personal anecdotes. In this book, Baird was also outspokenly critical of the gunmakers ( chiefly Thompson/Center) who had the audacity to apply the almost sacred Hawken name to modern muzzleloaders which honestly had very little in common with the originals.

More recently, we've seen Bob Woodfill's Hawken book published. Mr. Woodfill is an extraordinarily talented builder and a knowledgeable scholar of Hawken lore, and I would recommend his book, but it doesn't really have anything new, and as good as it is, it just hasn't had nearly the impact that Baird's original book had. It's a good book, though.

Just some rambling thoughts on a topic I find very interesting.

Notchy Bob