Old Deringer Lincoln style

Discussion in 'Handguns' started by poker, Dec 6, 2019.

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  1. Dec 6, 2019 #1

    poker

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    What can anyone tell by the pics here? Is this likely an original or early copy? It has plenty of wear to both wood and metal, and it seems to me like its likely original, with heavy cleaning, derusting or whatever at some time in its life. Any guesses as to value? IMG_3635.JPG IMG_3636 (2).JPG IMG_3637 (2).JPG
     

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  2. Dec 6, 2019 #2

    springfield art

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    Looks real to me! Interesting to follow subsequent opinions!
     
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  3. Dec 6, 2019 #3

    poker

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    DA289851-DE0E-41EB-BB34-72A7FAE4EB23.jpeg I forgot to mention the bore size. Very hard to tell with it having 7 lands but Id say around .420 just guessing with a calipers
     
  4. Dec 6, 2019 #4

    plmeek

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    I would say it's an antique. The ramrod is a replacement, though. The prices I've seen for original Deringer pistols can be in the thousands of dollars, but it depends of condition, of course, and maybe the length of barrel. The shortest barrel pistols seem to be the most sought after.

    The condition of this one probably puts the value in the hundreds of dollars. I also note that it doesn't have engraving on the silver inlay below the nipple bolster or on the barrel wedge escutcheons. Very minimal engraving on the trigger guard and entry pipe.

    The pistol below is currently up for auction and estimated value is between $900-$1800. But it has a lot more decoration with extensive engraving and a cap box in the butt cap as well as better condition.
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Dec 6, 2019 #5

    poker

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    PL thanks for the excellent review. Thats what I meant by looking as if it had been cleaned up in the past. The engraving being gone or never there on the estuchions. But then I also am confused that the plating is still on them, unless its to bare steel and never re-rusted. It sure appears like nickel or german silver though. Did you suppose they had made different grades or models?
     
  6. Dec 6, 2019 #6

    plmeek

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    Yes, Deringer made many different grades and different models.
     
  7. Dec 6, 2019 #7

    springfield art

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    This little gun also doesn't have the "Deringer Phila" on the lockplate?
     
  8. Dec 6, 2019 #8

    58 Caliber

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    First and second photos show the lock plate and it says Derringer Philadelphia. Nice pistol. I have a repro that I enjoy shooting.

    Dave
     
  9. Dec 6, 2019 #9

    Zonie

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    It appears to me to be authentic based on the descriptions given in Flayderman's Guide. (pp 408-409)
    The DERINGER/PHILADEL* matches the markings on the lock and breech of the barrel like it should.
    The German Silver escutcheons on the sides of the stock match.
    The front foot of the trigger guard comes close but not exactly like the style Deringer used during the 1835-45 period.
    The breech and the barrel are two pieces like they should be.

    Flayderman's Guide 9th Ed, published in 2007 listed the pistol in "good" condition as being worth $900 and in "fine" condition @ $2750.

    This pistol is IMO, not quite up to a "good" condition.
     
  10. Dec 7, 2019 #10

    poker

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    Thanks Zonie for the information. I thought it would grade fairly low, but still be a fine piece to have around.
     
  11. Dec 7, 2019 #11

    curator

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    Poker,

    It appears to be an original "Deringer" that has been unfortunately heavily "cleaned"--if you can call grinding off the engraving on the german silver furniture, cleaning. Having been treated so, takes a lot of value from an original firearm. Keep in mind that there are a great many counterfeit Deringer pistols, and a "scrubbing" like this one has had is a way of disguising fakery. Its value is precisely what someone else will pay for it. Original Deringer pieces usually fetch good prices even in poor condition. Some counterfeits sell for nearly as much as originals. From the pictures, I would rate it NRA "Fair" condition. You can check some antique firearms sites to see what similar specimen are selling for. Often an auction site will get a slightly higher price.
     
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  12. Dec 7, 2019 #12

    poker

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    Curator, thank you for your input. This isnt my piece, but it could be. Im trying to figure out what to offer for it. I assumed the estuchions had gotten rusty and were sanded clean with no regard to losing the engraving. The current owner has no idea or opinion on this. It is an inheritance to him and he simply wishes to sell. I do wish to be fair on an offer but at the same time I dont care to pay more than I could get back if I decided I didnt need it after all.
     
  13. Dec 8, 2019 #13

    Zonie

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    If it is a true, original Deringer pistol all of the shiny things will be made out of German Silver.
    German Silver does not rust.
    It can develop some green corrosion due to the copper but this is usually not very obvious and I can't imagine it being so bad that removing it would totally destroy any engraving unless it was done by someone who was overzealous.
     
  14. Dec 8, 2019 #14

    poker

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    So going by Curators theory that perhaps its a copy that was heavily cleaned to fool people, how likely is that? I would doubt thats the case, but Im sure no expert. Tomorrow I will be showing it to someone who knows much more than I do about antique pieces.
     
  15. Dec 8, 2019 #15

    springfield art

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    There are all kinds of fakery out there. Buyer beware!
     
  16. Dec 8, 2019 #16

    springfield art

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    I always wanted one of the Peder. repros; one went at a local auction here for $160 plus fees; much less than buying from the Dixie catalog. Bet it would be fun to shoot! I have two of the authentic plastic Revell models of the "Lincoln"-type derringer from the 1960's.
     
  17. Dec 9, 2019 #17

    F.G. Ford

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    Hello Poker,
    If you contact "Pawn Stars" let them shoot it, as they most often do, they can give you a "professional opinion" as to it's worth.
    Now that is a hair brained idea !
    From my own personal experience, they are fun to shoot, study and admire, but you soon grow tired of them and wish to sell/trade them away. With that in mind don't spend the last of your inheritance on one, because in most cases it is a fake or reproduction.
    Good luck on your journey and have fun.
    Fred
     
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  18. Dec 14, 2019 #18

    springfield art

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    I've been to the Deringer family plot in Woodlands Cemetery in West Phila., Pa. He turned out a lot of guns in Philly back in his day!
     
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