Nw trade gun

[Tamarack Dave]

Thanks guys, perhaps I'll look into earlier fowler or the type G trade gun. I think it better to carry an early gun, rather than a later gun to emulate my time period I have chosen. Perhaps fit in during French and Indian War. Decisions, decisions lol

 

[plmeek]

Ok, Tamarack, now I'm funnin' with ya. To make your decision even more difficult, there were different grades of Type G's and NW trade guns. The better grades often had more cast parts rather than parts made from sheet brass and usually had more engraving. Collectors like to call the higher grade a Chief's Gun, and they probably were given to chiefs and important warriors as gifts, but the trading posts or factories liked to have different grades so the Indians had more choices and could be tempted to trade for something more expensive.

This first gun is an upgrade Type G. It has a cast trigger guard and butt plate rather than the sheet brass version of the lower grade. It also has a little more engraving. It's made with the same flat side plate that is engraved with the serpent design and the face looking forward like the regular Type G. The thumb piece is a different design but, still engraved sheet brass.


Next is a Chief's grade NW trade gun. It has the typical NW cast serpent side plate with the face turned to look backward. The upgrade features are fowler type cast trigger guard and butt plate and an embossed or cast thumb piece with the bust of an Indian chief.


Note that both of these guns have very slim wrists, indicative of trade guns before the Revolutionary War.

The variances seen in these two guns can also be found in the archeological record.

 

[Treestalker]

Will Mr. Kibler use a .48" barrel like the original in the picture? Would he make it a 'chiefs' grade? And would he use the earlier slimmer wrist or a more substantial version? I personally would like one plain, with the long barrel and later thicker wrist, a hunting gun. This is exciting news, and I wish Mr. Kibler well in his efforts to supply authentic repro classics at affordable prices. I'm going to start saving beer cans and other recyclables to one day procure one of these trade gun kits. And in a 16ga as well? Wow. Look out squirrels, The Ozarks will not be the same!

 

[kje54]

Hello all, I'm looking to build a northwest trade gun. I looked at the Sitting Fox kit and Track of the Wolf kit, looking for recommendations on which one to get or any other trade gun kits to look at. Thanks in advance

Track of the Wolf without a doubt.

 

[Rudyard]

Going earlier still good for later makes sense to me ..very interesting posts .
Rudyard

 

[dave_person]

Will Mr. Kibler use a .48" barrel like the original in the picture? Would he make it a 'chiefs' grade? And would he use the earlier slimmer wrist or a more substantial version? I personally would like one plain, with the long barrel and later thicker wrist, a hunting gun. This is exciting news, and I wish Mr. Kibler well in his efforts to supply authentic repro classics at affordable prices. I'm going to start saving beer cans and other recyclables to one day procure one of these trade gun kits. And in a 16ga as well? Wow. Look out squirrels, The Ozarks will not be the same!

Hi,
Currently Jim's intent is to use the Richard Wilson fowler shown on pages 53-56 in Jim Mullins' book "Of Sorts for Provincials" and owned by Colonial Williamsburg. I expect he will design a pretty close copy of it with a long barrel. However, I don't know if he has finalized his plans on this yet. I wish he would do a higher quality English fowler rather than a trade gun.

dave

 

[Treestalker]

Thank you, Dave, it will be fun to see what Jim comes up with; I'm sure it will be well worth the effort. Yes, I agree a fine English fowler would be awesome, but many of us could not afford one, and if we did, we could not do it justice. And your work, Dave, is something many of us cannot begin to emulate, much less want to drag through the swamps and baygalls!

 

[dave_person]

Hi Treestalker,
Thanks for the kind note but I was actually not thinking of a high end gun rather one like this:

As far as we know this English fowler spent most of its working life in America and represents a good quality import from England but not high end. A gun many folks could and did afford. The styling is classic and much more elegant than the Wilson fowler/trade gun. With a kit like this you could keep it as is, down grade it to a trade gun, or up grade it to a first quality gun by changing a few components. The Wilson gun will only ever be a lower grade fowler or trade gun.

dave

 

[Whisper]

My first build was a NW Trade gun from Sitting Fox. I did have a problem with the barrel being the wrong diameter but Ray shipped me a new one right away. One disappointment for a first build was that there was only one page of instructions and it only referred to the bolt through the tang to the trigger guard. Here are some pictures.

 

[plmeek]

Unfortunately, one page of instructions with a kit is about par for a lot of companies that supply kits. GRRW's kit assembly instructions were just two pages with a full scale drawing of the gun. Sharon Rifle Barrel Co. was probably the best. Their half stock Hawken came with 6 pages of instructions and their full stock Hawken came with 9 pages of instructions.

I think most kit suppliers assume the customer will buy books on building muzzleloaders to aid in assembling the kit. Track of the Wolf usually recommends appropriate books in the descriptions of their kits. Track also has detail blueprints or plans for many guns that are useful.

As far as the Northwest gun is concerned, the best book on building one is Trade Muskets or Northwest Guns by Pryor Mt. Bill Newton. This book is out of print but sometimes can be found on the second hand market. There is a copy presently for sale on Amazon for $45 and two others for $75 and $80.

I would also recommend anyone looking to build a Northwest trade gun to get a copy of Track's plans as a general guide.

 

[Whisper]

Lucky for me a friend had a Track drawing so it made it easy to finish the rifle. Thanks

 

[toot]

it is known by many of you smooth bore trade gun shooters that they are capable of beating the A$$ off of many of a rifeled gun! in the right hands. JMHO.

 

[CPurcell]

The Museum of the Fur Trade in Chadron Nebraska has the most complete and with out a doubt the best collection of NW guns in America. The Northwest gun by Charles E Hanson Jr. and Trade gun Sketch Book by his son Charles Hanson III are very good books. Trade Gun Lock Patterns 1630- 1900 by Ryan R. Gale is a good book on the lock patterns. The sitting fox in a circle facing right was a trade mark 'more or less' of the Northwest and Mackinaw companies, about 1784 to 1821. The HBC used the so called left facing fox in a tomb-stone plaque. The one thing that we do wrong is the 20ga. barrels, Almost all of them were except in very very rare occasions were 24ga. about 58 cal. None were rifled! They did make a Trade Rifle but it's a total different gun.

 

[Juniata]

The Museum of the Fur Trade in Chadron Nebraska has the most complete and with out a doubt the best collection of NW guns in America. The Northwest gun by Charles E Hanson Jr. and Trade gun Sketch Book by his son Charles Hanson III are very good books. Trade Gun Lock Patterns 1630- 1900 by Ryan R. Gale is a good book on the lock patterns. The sitting fox in a circle facing right was a trade mark 'more or less' of the Northwest and Mackinaw companies, about 1784 to 1821. The HBC used the so called left facing fox in a tomb-stone plaque. The one thing that we do wrong is the 20ga. barrels, Almost all of them were except in very very rare occasions were 24ga. about 58 cal. None were rifled! They did make a Trade Rifle but it's a total different gun.

My uncle live 45 minutes south of Chadron, I've been to the museum in 2007 when I lived out there farming.
Then I took my wife and daughter out in 2019 and we went again. I was enjoying looking at all the trade guns. In the video in the museum you watch is really interesting of the HBC.
I wanted to go this spring when I was out turkey hunting but they were closed.
It's in the middle of no where but a great museum.
I'm looking at the thread since I recently sold my trade gun and have the parts coming to build another.
This time, I'm going to thin that sucker down... First one like many new gun builds, I didn't take enough wood away.

 

[Nobade]

Anybody have any experience with the Clay Smith trade gun kits?
https://www.claysmithguns.com/Trade_gun_kits.htm