Now for something completely different

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

Joined
Jan 27, 2008
Messages
21,733
Reaction score
18,401
Location
Republic mo
Billy T
Ol general Sherman
We have a Thread about Lee. Americas most perfect military officer
Now about Sherman
Ok Crazy Bill himself.
The Devils own spawn I’m sure
Ah no
Overshadowed by his boss in the west, Sherman stands out as a master of modern warfare.
When Patton drove a dagger in to Germany the Ghost of Sherman was at his side.
As a dyed in the wool supporter of the southren cause I should hate him, but instead would place him on a pedestal, if not with Lee at least with his brother from another mother Jackson
 

Mangonboat

36 Cl.
Joined
Oct 20, 2021
Messages
68
Reaction score
117
Lee and Sherman are an interesting comparison, in their origins, upbringings, circumstances, early careers. 1n 1860 and thereafter, Sherman made as clear as possible to anyone who listened that preservation of the United States was paramount, and he was willing to do whatever it took, even though, even in 1860, he foresaw the carnage that was coming. In a December 1860 letter to a former colleague at the Louisiana Seminary and Military Academy ( now LSU), Sherman, the former Commandant of that very academy, wrote:
"You people of the South don't know what you are doing. This country will be drenched in blood, and God only knows how it will end. It is all folly, madness, a crime against civilization! You people speak so lightly of war; you don't know what you're talking about. War is a terrible thing! You mistake, too, the people of the North. They are a peaceable people but an earnest people, and they will fight, too. They are not going to let this country be destroyed without a mighty effort to save it … Besides, where are your men and appliances of war to contend against them? The North can make a steam engine, locomotive, or railway car; hardly a yard of cloth or pair of shoes can you make. You are rushing into war with one of the most powerful, ingeniously mechanical, and determined people on Earth — right at your doors. You are bound to fail. Only in your spirit and determination are you prepared for war. In all else you are totally unprepared, with a bad cause to start with. At first you will make headway, but as your limited resources begin to fail, shut out from the markets of Europe as you will be, your cause will begin to wane. If your people will but stop and think, they must see in the end that you will surely fail."

By the time he captured Atlanta in September 1864, he was acutely aware of the wailing and gnashing of teeth that war, especially in and by people the South, was not well-received, but he was not deterred. In his letter to the City Council of Atlanta:
"You cannot qualify war in harsher terms than I will. War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it; and those who brought war into our country deserve all the curses and maledictions a people can pour out. I know I had no hand in making this war, and I know I will make more sacrifices today than any of you to secure peace. But you cannot have peace and a division of our country. "

In a letter to Gen. Phil Sheridan in November 1864, when the eventual outcome of the Civil War was so clear:
"I am satisfied, and have been all the time, that the problem of this war consists in the awful fact that the present class of men who rule the South must be killed outright rather than in the conquest of territory."

Modern historians have looked behind the reputation for cruelty and atrocities:
"Some Confederate soldiers switched sides, beginning as early as 1862. When Sherman made his famous march to the sea from Atlanta to Savannah, his army actually grew in number, because thousands of white southerners volunteered along the way. Meanwhile, almost two-thirds of the Confederate army disappeared through desertion. Eighteen thousand slaves joined Sherman, so many that the army had to turn some away. Compare these facts with the portrait common in our textbooks of Sherman's marauders looting their way through a united south. The increasing ideological confusion in the Confederate states, coupled with the increasing strength of the United States, helps explains the Union victory... Many nations and people have continued to fight with far inferior means and weapons... The Confederacy's ideological contradictions were its gravest liabilities, ultimately causing its defeat."
 

Eutycus

70 Cal.
Joined
Nov 11, 2018
Messages
4,182
Reaction score
2,350
Location
South Texas
Sherman did on occassion show some acts of kindness just not most of the time. He had some aquaintences from his pre war years as a superintendent of a Military Academy in Louisiana. So he did have some knowledge of the Southern people and their "ways".
 
Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Messages
111
Reaction score
114
Gentlemen,
Personally I do not understand how a man can throw himself on his son (to protect the boy) while yankee troops murder civilians (Camp Jackson massacre in St. Louis Mo.) and then fight for the same murderous, invading government.
I think Sherman was a war criminal. However, I have a respect for Tenngun- he is very well read and intelligent. We will just have to agree to disagree on this one. :) (I never used one of these before....I am getting computer savvy in my old age!)
David
 

Eutycus

70 Cal.
Joined
Nov 11, 2018
Messages
4,182
Reaction score
2,350
Location
South Texas
This episode happened on Sherman's March to the Sea but really wasn't about Sherman.A huge crowd of slaves were following the Army. One of Sherman's generals had the pontoon bridge over Ebenezer Creek near Savannah pulled up. This left the slaves with no means to cross. Alot of them were so desperate to escape slavery that they risked swimming.And alot of them drowned. That general was named Jefferson Davis. Yes the North had a general Jefferson Davis.
 
Joined
Feb 29, 2020
Messages
1,015
Reaction score
1,481
Location
NC
Heard through all the years that is the same trick Sherman pulled on the blacks when he crossed the Cape Fear River at Fayetteville. Left them all behind and that is supposed to be why that part of town has mainly black people. He blew the bridge.
 

Eutycus

70 Cal.
Joined
Nov 11, 2018
Messages
4,182
Reaction score
2,350
Location
South Texas
Any one who knows even a little about the Civil War is familiar General Nathan Bedford Forrest.Forrest must have been some headache to the Yankee army. Sherman had this to say , "That devil Forrest must be hunted down and killed if it cost 10,000 lives and bankrupts the Federal Treasury".
 

Red Owl

45 Cal.
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
622
Reaction score
520
Location
Florida
Well, Sherman went on to become top general in the Army followed by Sheridan. He had to be doing something right. I don't know how many of you have been to Chattanooga and from there to Atlanta but as a general rule the attacking force is at a 3 to 1 disadvantage over the defending force. I have tried to study the whole thing but didn't get very far except that Joe Johnston seemed to have more than enough to stop Sherman- unless I am just missing something. So good old Joe either "blew it" or Sherman was some sort of wizard. Grant took forever against Lee at Petersburg and that seems to me a lot easier task than going through the mountains NW of Atlanta. Even at Kennesaw just outside Atlanta, the confederates held the high ground.
One other thing, the size of the federal forces can get inflated. The federal armies could "call on" so many reserves. Obviously a huge advantage but the actual number in the field was much smaller. Johnston should have been able to stop Sherman- it seems.
 

Eutycus

70 Cal.
Joined
Nov 11, 2018
Messages
4,182
Reaction score
2,350
Location
South Texas
I suppose it may have been that Richmond cried that Johnston was too slow or timid even though he was kind of getting the job done. But you must admit Sherman was advancing. Sherman got a Thanks of Congress for his capture of Atlanta. This was his second. He was the only man to receive 2 Thanks of Congress.
 
Joined
Jan 27, 2008
Messages
21,733
Reaction score
18,401
Location
Republic mo
This episode happened on Sherman's March to the Sea but really wasn't about Sherman.A huge crowd of slaves were following the Army. One of Sherman's generals had the pontoon bridge over Ebenezer Creek near Savannah pulled up. This left the slaves with no means to cross. Alot of them were so desperate to escape slavery that they risked swimming.And alot of them drowned. That general was named Jefferson Davis. Yes the North had a general Jefferson Davis.
Lincoln had freed slaves in areas in rebellion, but per SCOTUS they were not and could not be citizens.
This is part of the attitude problem, the north was not fighting to end Slavery even at this late date
Sherman’s march to the sea was a corridor about sixty miles wide, the CSA still controlled land to either side.
Those ‘free’ x slaves were only free de jur and not de facto. And not citizens to boot.
As far as the US army was concerned they were ‘contraband of war’.
Sherman had not the supplies to feed them, and did not have the means to protect the women and girls from a mass of young men in his army. The discipline head aches of young and even elderly unskilled and largely unusable mass of camp followers was a nightmare he couldn’t deal with.
And here is the basis of the hard feelings between the north and the south. The north, and Sherman was fighting to save the union, not end slavery
 

Eutycus

70 Cal.
Joined
Nov 11, 2018
Messages
4,182
Reaction score
2,350
Location
South Texas
Lincoln had freed slaves in areas in rebellion, but per SCOTUS they were not and could not be citizens.
This is part of the attitude problem, the north was not fighting to end Slavery even at this late date
Sherman’s march to the sea was a corridor about sixty miles wide, the CSA still controlled land to either side.
Those ‘free’ x slaves were only free de jur and not de facto. And not citizens to boot.
As far as the US army was concerned they were ‘contraband of war’.
Sherman had not the supplies to feed them, and did not have the means to protect the women and girls from a mass of young men in his army. The discipline head aches of young and even elderly unskilled and largely unusable mass of camp followers was a nightmare he couldn’t deal with.
And here is the basis of the hard feelings between the north and the south. The north, and Sherman was fighting to save the union, not end slavery
There are many who will disagree with you concerning the cause. They will argue that the "noble" army was down South only to free the poor slaves. I for one don't buy that baloney
 
Joined
Nov 6, 2020
Messages
2,369
Reaction score
3,627
Location
Lancaster County, PA
Any one who knows even a little about the Civil War is familiar General Nathan Bedford Forrest.Forrest must have been some headache to the Yankee army. Sherman had this to say , "That devil Forrest must be hunted down and killed if it cost 10,000 lives and bankrupts the Federal Treasury".
To paraphrase Cassius Clay: Forrest floated like a butterfly and stung like a bee.
 
Joined
Dec 23, 2013
Messages
1,126
Reaction score
2,363
Location
Alaska and Arizona
One fact that is completely over looked by the modern media, revisionist historians, and even the black people themselves is that Abraham Lincoln had planned to send as many blacks as he could back to Africa. He was very concerned about the effect that many thousands of freed but uneducated, unskilled and starving slaves moving north would have on the country. His assassination put and end to that plan.
 

Eutycus

70 Cal.
Joined
Nov 11, 2018
Messages
4,182
Reaction score
2,350
Location
South Texas
One fact that is completely over looked by the modern media, revisionist historians, and even the black people themselves is that Abraham Lincoln had planned to send as many blacks as he could back to Africa. He was very concerned about the effect that many thousands of freed but uneducated, unskilled and starving slaves moving north would have on the country. His assassination put and end to that plan.
I don't know that he was 100% behind the idea but Lincoln did kick the idea around. I think he even had several meetings with black leaders and free black businessmen concerning the idea of transporting free blacks to Liberia or some other colony.
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2018
Messages
3,983
Reaction score
5,054
Interesting, I have a letter that was written to my great,great grandfather from his cousin who was at Ft. Thayer one of the fortifications surrounding Washington D.C. my grandfather was with the 7th Md. and at Bolivar Heights above Harpers Ferry at the time. His cousin digresses the fact that the mood in his units members was at a all time low since Lincoln issued the proclimation. as they joined the cause to preserve the union, not to free the slaves.
 
Joined
Dec 23, 2013
Messages
1,126
Reaction score
2,363
Location
Alaska and Arizona
I read that many units in the northern army were near riot or mutiny when that Proclamation was sprang on them. Very many men concured that freeing slaves was not the reason they enlisted.
Yes, but according to what we are told down to this day it's the racist white Southerners who have kept the blacks down. The fact is people in the North had the same attitude towards blacks as the Southerners but the North won the war and those who win the war get to write the history.
 

Latest posts

Top