Not for sale!

Discussion in 'Forum Announcements & Support' started by -, Jul 27, 2010.

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  1. Jul 30, 2010 #81

    anvil1231

    anvil1231

    anvil1231

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    I think 99% percent of the forum members agree on this.

    I have posted tomahawks and knives on this forum. I have answered every question I have been ask not holding back any "trade secrets". Some questions have been ask in pm's. I answered those and went back answered them publicly.
    Then on the other hand I have ask lots of questions and had them answered from the pros. Without them holding back any information. So I hope that the pros will still be able to post.
     
  2. Jul 30, 2010 #82

    Guest

    If you read what Claude said in the above quoted post, you would see that what you are suggesting is not even a reality.

    "Other people post links to the builders web sites and the builders answer questions about their products and even post photos of guns they have built. That's acceptable."

    You guys are blowing this so far out of proportion, it's funny. You sound like the liberals complaining about the Arizona law... "It's racist and will effect all Hispanics". Try to read what is written and stop reading your own paranoia into it.

    And this, "I'll take my business elsewhere" attitude is juvenile.
     
  3. Jul 30, 2010 #83

    nc_cooter

    nc_cooter

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    Well said Anvil 1231. I don't think I know any craftsmen, pro or not, that will not share knowledge. Why not let the pics prompt the questions. Then, if knowledge is withheld, take action.
    Mike
     
  4. Jul 30, 2010 #84

    rabjr

    rabjr

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    Won't effect me either as I stopped posting how I was making bags when complaints were brought to my attention a long time ago. What the complainers did not know was that no money exchanged hands of those bags I posted. But I mentioned the persons name, so that had to be advertising. Whatever. Now when the mood strikes I make a bag and post it for sale in the Classifieds, having pretty much nothing to do with the Craftsmans forum, it just isn't worth the headaches that come with it.

    I also know gun builders who refuse to post their newest work because they are afraid it is against the rules and thats to bad, I like nothing more than to see the newest builds of the guys who know what they are doing.
     
  5. Jul 30, 2010 #85

    Guest

    I think this is starting to go in circles, but the only people who lose if they stop posting are those people. Others will continue to offer help, post photos of their gear and become know as "builders". They will simply replace those that stop posting. That's the nature of it. IMO
     
  6. Jul 30, 2010 #86

    nc_cooter

    nc_cooter

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    I have no "business" to take elsewhere. I am trying to take the "business" motive out of the equation on my part.
    As to paranoia, post "too" many pics of your work and it becomes a fact.
    I will continue to post, both questions and answers, in The Craftsman forum. Just not pics in the open forum.
    Mike
     
  7. Jul 30, 2010 #87

    RickD

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    I wonder what if anything was really solved..Kind of good to vent I guess..
     
  8. Jul 30, 2010 #88

    widget350

    widget350

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    I think you're over reacting, as are many people. Many of us have the tendency to put some tonal connotation on the written word that likely isn't there or intended.

    The old rules were very simply stated and therefore took very little effort to satisfy. If you provide a bit of information about the item you're posting in your initial post, you pretty much satisfied the requirement.

    "share how you made it" doesn't necessarily mean a pictorial or tutorial, or even an extensive description. Just a blurb could suffice:

    i.e. "This knife was forged out of an old file, and the handle was fashioned out of some old hickory I had sitting around and attached with three pins I made from nails"

    That gives a bit of information, and if anyone had any questions about it, you could elaborate. If there's a new technique you tried (maybe you read about it on here), you'd want to include that as well. For instance, when I posted my cannon carriage (though it wasn't in the craftsman forum), I mentioned I stained it using a home made iron acetate stain made of vinegar and iron, a technique I studied partially on this site. It's not difficult or demanding, but requires you do something more than say: "Here's my latest knife," which, to some extent, I have seen.
    ______________________

    Concerning the posting of items made by "professionals," I would recommend doing so not as a showcase of your newest work, but as you try something new. Many of you do something new all the time - working with new tools/materials, making something you've never made before, using a different heat treating/finishing process, etc. Show it - [strike]even if[/strike] especially if it didn't work the way you wanted it to. We all can benefit from your experience, and you may get ideas on a new approach you wouldn't have gotten if you didn't show it. Of course, be sure to discuss in some measure your approach and what makes this item special.

    Doing this, I personally wouldn't see anything wrong with it being sold before or afterward - everyone has been able to learn from it, so it was posted not as an advertisement, but to illustrate what you learned. After all, if you, as a professional, are able to learn something new (which you all can and so far as I can tell, actively try to do on a regular basis - as so aptly described by Roy), how much more can those of us who aren't professionals learn from it! Of course, this would require a rule change, but it's how I think the Craftsman forum should operate.

    I think these would be agreeable to most, and acheive the most benefit for all involved. It would also require all posters to examine their work a bit more carefully to make sure they understand what it taught them, which could make for some very interesting posts!
     
  9. Jul 30, 2010 #89

    Guest

    An excellent, well thought out post. :applause:
     
  10. Jul 30, 2010 #90

    LaBonte

    LaBonte

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    And even when we did satisfy them i.e. Claude nor or any other moderator has contacted me as having broken them, we were and still are frequently met with the same old rant time after time.

    As to learning something - well most of learn something all the time and like to pass it and even if we haven't necessarily have something new ot learn for ourselves it may very well be new for others......I come here to relax and share not to advertise which I have no need for.
    As to whether I'll continue to share - yep my inclination is much like the others - I'll just keep my mouth shut and no longer offer the hard earned knowledge I haveand we offer it at no charge - the same knowledge I charge for if/when you come to my shop to learn or that I have for sale in other ways.....
    Yep some of are pros, but despite what some seem to think or what Google says, we are not all "on the sell" 24/7/365 - and having been in the marketing business, both for myself as well as others since the 1970's, I'd be willing to bet I know far more about the subject than most here.....
    Oh BTW - those "professional beauty shots" well thanks for the compliment since I take them myself using a simple point and shoot camera and funky light setup that my friends who are pros just shake their head in wonder at....

    Maybe more later but for now I'm headed for the barn......
     
  11. Jul 30, 2010 #91

    BrownBear

    BrownBear

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    Dang, I'm a 20-year pro photographer and I don't know if I could do as well with our studio full of lighting equipment. If you're doing that with a P&S and funky lights, I'll join the ranks of pros wearing neck braces! Sheesh! :hatsoff:

    Maybe in your next career you can be a photo instructor! :rotf:
     
  12. Jul 30, 2010 #92

    nc_cooter

    nc_cooter

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    Very well stated, Chuck. I have been following your work for years. Every time I see a pic of your work, I see something that I file in my inspiration drawer. Over the years you have answered any question I have asked, from how it's done to vendors for supplies.
    I will continue to follow your work, hopefully here, no matter what the outcome.
    Mike Broach
     
  13. Jul 30, 2010 #93

    widget350

    widget350

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    I know you are always trying to learn something new - I said that the pros on here are always learning. That's the point of the rules I suggest - they don't focus on whether it's for sale/sold or whether you're a pro, amateur, or first timer. It's all about what you learned from the experience. If you want to give instruction on something you didn't learn, that's fine as well.

    There would also be no need to restrict you from selling what you show, provided when you show it you include the new thing you learned - and there's always something new to be learned from any task we do, no matter how menial it may seem. If you show a picture and use it to demonstrate something as described, you shouldn't have to worry about mods or admins complaining about you being a pro - because you contributed to the forum, thereby "earning" the right to post it for sale should you chose to put it in the classifieds.

    Here's a part of a response I sent to Claude after he commented on my last post via PM, which may help to further illustrate this viewpoint:

    One of the best resources on this site is Mike Brooks' gun building tutorial. Mike is very plain in saying that what he makes is for sale, so I assume he sold the rifle built in that tutorial - but who cares. It's a valuable learning tool, and it makes no difference whether or not he sold the gun. Though I don't think the whole site should be tutorials, bits of learnings could be equally valuable, and if they come at the cost of a professional needing to sell something, so be it. Provided the post is not done in the spirit of showcasing a product, but in showcasing a lesson, I don't think any harm will come of it, and it wouldn't feel like someone is trying to drum up business.

    This would also relieve the burden of moderating, because there wouldn't have to be a restriction against selling items shown. If a professsional was able to present enough products to make it worthwhile for them to regularly sell what they post on here, they'd have contributed so much that it would be unfortunate to deny them the opportunity. :hmm:

    As for the quality of your pictures - more's the better, so long as the setup doesn't interfere with showing what you learned or what you are teaching. Your pictures are very nice, and should you be inclined, you may even want to give a brief tutorial on how you set up a shot/post process. If the nice setup doesn't express what you want you learned or are teaching, you could still post that picture and supplement it with a more straight up picture that better demonstrates the point you're making.
     
  14. Jul 30, 2010 #94

    LRB

    LRB

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    +1
     
  15. Jul 30, 2010 #95

    Robby

    Robby

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    That is so absurd. It is more analogist to the typical lefty tactic of creating a problem where NONE exists, so that that even the act of addressing it, changes things more to their liking.
    Robby
     
  16. Jul 30, 2010 #96

    Guest

    "Anonymous" means Carl's account was deleted. (I think)
     
  17. Jul 30, 2010 #97

    LRB

    LRB

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    NO COMMENT.
     
  18. Jul 30, 2010 #98

    BrownBear

    BrownBear

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    Speaking from the crowd rather than the front of the room, it looks like a dead issue to me. On behalf of my own continued learning and enjoyment, thanks to all who have taken the time to look for solutions. :applause:
     
  19. Jul 30, 2010 #99

    Robby

    Robby

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    Also, thanks to all those who post pictures, and offer up their knowledge, pro or not, it is inspiring.
    Robby
     
  20. Jul 30, 2010 #100

    anvil1231

    anvil1231

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    Another 1+
     

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