Discussion in 'Forum Announcements & Support' started by -, Jul 27, 2010.
You separate the chaff from the wheat. You don't burn the field.
I'll weigh in briefly.
If there's a distinction to be made between pro and amateur, I'd sure like to see a pro section in addition to an amateur-only.
I really like to see the pro results for my own education and enjoyment of great craftsmanship. These guys all started as amateurs too, and we all benefit from their research, trials and interpretations. They're great craftsmen and the forum is a better place for having them show and discuss their work and techniques. I don't know of any place else that carries this to the level found here.
Amateurs have every right to expect an opportunity to show their own work and get comments and help too. If some of them feel intimidated by the pros, a separate venue for amateur work might help resolve that. I sincerely hope that the pros will visit and comment however. I find their insights and recommendations to be priceless.
Is that fair to the people who PAY for an advertising banner? I think the compliant is that some people get around paying for advertising by posting in the craftsmen section.
It's not much of a stretch to think that if you see a "Pro" posting his merchandise, that he can be contacted for a purchase. It has the same effect as a banner ad, except he didn't have to pay for it.
Is that not the issue?
What or who would determine Who the pro is and who the amature is? I was accused of being pro, when in fact im not qualified to be classed a rookie.
it seems to me the craftsman forum was doing just fine until a certain individual started attacking every thread, when in fact this person has never to my knowledge posted ANYTHING made by his hands, or really not very much muzzleloader related, and now others are jumping on his bandwagon because it looks as tho Claude is getting involved :shake: We have lost a great deal of knowledge from gun makers who are tired of the p.c. not p.c. crap that has been going on, and either left or quit posting. Now are we going to run off the knife, hawk, bag makers also? kinda makes you wonder Who is running this show?
Without the pros posting their work, how is the beginner going to know what his things are suppose to look like, and how to achieve their goal? i keep reading about breaking rules! Please someone fill me in, I have seen not one for sale sign, as far as how it is made! how many times can you say "I heated it past red, and beat it with a hammer" i have received numerous P.M.s about how did you get that color, how did you age that blade, and would have answered any of them on the thread. If someone posts a picture, there is no way he can answer peoples questions without knowing what the question is! People dont have a question until they see a picture.
I thought we already had a place to post tutorials! :shake:
Not directed at you Brownbear! You are one of the many, not one of the few! :v
With all due respect!
That kinda works the same way with the premium membership, you pay money and have the same access to knowledge and discussion as the regular members other than a couple BS threads. What is the difference? If a rookie post a pict of something they make, could they not also be contacted if you wanted one also?
Not for me, it's not. If they're willing to share their secrets and help others, they're more than welcome.
I want to know what they're making and how they did it. I'll go wherever I have to for the info. If it takes a pro section here to allow them to show there work and tell us how they did it, fine, and it will keep me coming back. Ban them, and I'll just have to find other places to learn from them.
Here's a list: http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/premium.php
I don't know what the answer is but I'm not seeing any of these guys post in the crftsman forum, then turn around and post the same thing for sale in the Classifieds. And if they do want to sell something, all they have to do is post it in the Classifieds, not the craftsman forum.
Talk about skirting the rules, we have some who post a dandy little signed rifle in one of the forums showing off what they just got and a couple weeks later, it appears in the Classifieds. Advertise first, sell second, correct me if I'm wrong but I believe thats wrong and thats something I just don't see from the craftsmen.
Pretty soon your going to drive away all the people who make this site what it is and all your going to have is a bunch of whiners who never post anything about shooting or making anything, they're going to just whine about the next thing they can. :shake:
I think that's because they sell their products on their own web sites.
I don't see a danger in that, as most people involved in muzzleloading are not making their own gear. Most people are "shooters", not builders. I think?
I also think that there are many pros who don't come here just to sell, and they're getting lumped in with a few bad apples.
And, why isn't this a problem in the Gun Builders forum? Is it just the knife and bag guys doing this?
Who cares if they sell at their own sites if they do have a site, I've never seen one show the address to their site.
I don't know what your talking about when you say "Gun Building" forum, I never mentioned it or emplyed anything about that forum.
We've already lost a lot of good people since the turn of the year that contributed quite a bit to this site in the past.
I personally rather enjoy seeing all the rifles, bags, horns, knives, and what have you that the other members display here. I'm equally impressed to learn that they made the item themselves. The skill and workmanship most often displayed is so far ahead of what I am capable of it's embarrassing. At times, the said item was received as a gift witch (to me) makes it no less interesting. Do you remember the "SHOW AND TELL" sessions in primary school? I do not remember ever reading a post that a question appeared in (concerning the "making" process) that wasn't answered fairly. I do hope that all the members are allowed to continue posting photo's of their equipment for us skill/ability challenged to drool over.
Not trying to rock the boat, just voicing my unsolicited opinion.
I think the complaint is, they post their stuff here and it's easy enough to contact them through their profile or privately - THE GET TO THEIR SITE. :grin:
You're taking this way too personal. I was simply asking why people aren't complaining about the "Pros" in the gun builders forum. It seems to be limited to the "craftsman".
People come and go. The new people here don't miss the people that left before they joined. :wink:
"Show and Tell" (gear you own, but didn't make yourself), is supposed to go in the Photo forum. I don't think there have been any complaints about the Photo forum.
Stick around, I'm sure these guys will find one.
Do you think that bad attitudes can drive people away from forums? :wink:
You want to start talking about bad attitudes, you and Carl need to take a good long look at each other. I think you two have done a better job at that than I ever could. I've also contributed a hell of a lot more to this site than you two ever will in the next ten years so don't go there. I don't feel like playing your games on this subject anymore and I'd much rather watch a movie than butt heads with you.
Bad attitudes make a difference. I make a lot of things from guns to knives to leather goods,ect. I've given things as gifts. I spent alot of time on a elk horn powder flask and put some pics up because I was pretty proud of it. A member pm'ed me and said he would really like one like that and could I make one for him. I made another,he asked what I wanted for it, I told him, sent it to him and I never received anything in return. He still posts occasionally, just chocked it up to experience. I do not make a living at what I make, but if someone sees something they like and contacts me privately about buying something, I see no problem with that. As long as one is not blatantly posting buy this for this much I don't see why anyone should get their shorts in a knot.
This forum is made up of people that enjoy muzzle loaders and all the things that go with it. Most buckskinners are self-reliant people by nature, and they are a hard sell. Unless they have money to burn they usually make their own. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not looking down my nose at someone that has money, it is theirs to do with what they want. But if there are any transactions take place, if it is private I DON'T SEE A PROBLEM.
I have all the faith in the world in how Claude runs this neighborhood and what he decides is just what it is, his decision, I have no problem with it. What does disturb me is a few people or one person, whichever, whining and boo hooing and making a fuss about some thing, that up until now never seemed to offend anyone. It really is a great place to come and look and learn, and if you see something you like make an inquiry in the appropriate manner. But alas it seems that times are a changing. OH WELL nothing ever stays the same. Sometimes attitude does make a difference.
My opinion only...
But I frequented the old Craftsmen forum. I never bought a thing there. I asked questions, and some of those accused in the past as being "Professionals" that were accused of trying to profit from their presence ~ went way out of their way to help me. Some even contacted me with PM's...
Mikey Ameling and I became friend from these discussions. He was helping me buy correct blacksmithing gear, advising me on anvils, etc.... seem to recall a certain PIA that attacked him also. Makes me wonder what he would have thought of this thread....?
Perhaps the wrong squeeking wheel is getting greased by all this. :shake:
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