Northwest trade guns

[Red Owl]

Not much has been said recently on NW trade guns. Anyone use them? Hunt with them? How is the accuracy out to say 50 yards with a single ball and can you also load with shot for birds, etc. and how is the patterns with shot?

 

[Cruzatte]

I don't want to sound like a jerk. So please excuse my bluntness. I'd like to see you post your results.

In my experience, the best way to answer these questions is to go out and find out for yourself. Experiment. Each gun seems to be a law unto itself. Add into the equation the experience and skill of each shooter, and the results vary widely. Above all, enjoy the journey. This is half the fun of this muzzle loading game.

 

[stank]

I shoot a 20 gauge. I put a rear site on it and it will shoot 4 inch groups with ball at 50 yards. The gun is jug choked and I would shoot at a turkey out to 30 yards but not past that at this time. With some more testing I’m sure I can tighten up the pattern.

 

[Kansas Kid]

It going to no different than other smooth bores like a FDC, they all use the same basic barrels.

 

[Brokennock]

Not much has been said recently on NW trade guns. Anyone use them? Hunt with them? How is the accuracy out to say 50 yards with a single ball and can you also load with shot for birds, etc. and how is the patterns with shot?

Really not going to shoot much different than other styles of snoothbore of the same bore size.
If shooting with no rear sight, it night hit to a different point of impact, for you personally, than another style due to the different stick shape effecting gun fit.

 

[ohio ramrod]

I used mine both with round ball and shot with good results. My one son in law is from the U K where gun restrictions are tighter than on this side of the pond. The first time he shot my trade gun was shooting trap and he broke the bird with his first try. He was "hooked" and for Christmas the next year he bought me an electric trap to use instead of my old Tarous.

 

[tenngun]

Really not going to shoot much different than other styles of snoothbore of the same bore size.
If shooting with no rear sight, it night hit to a different point of impact, for you personally, than another style due to the different stick shape effecting gun fit.

I have a TFC that has been my favorite gun, and filled more then one cooking pot for me over the last twenty ofd years I’ve owned it. In 2013 I got a NWG from track of the Wolf
It did everything my TFC did but never felt so comfy in the hand or on the shoulder. I sold it to get my smooth rifle.
I think most of today’s intrest in civilian smoothbores comes via the NWG. And such a practical gun that Curly Gostomsky reintroduced the wold to.

 

[Red Owl]

I thought smooth bore rifles got maybe 2" groups around 50 yards, if the average trade gun gets 4" groups at fifty yards then that would be a significant difference to me. Never the less, the rade gun it seems would be better than a smooth bore rifle if loading with shot for small game.

 

[stank]

I thought smooth bore rifles got maybe 2" groups around 50 yards, if the average trade gun gets 4" groups at fifty yards then that would be a significant difference to me. Never the less, the rade gun it seems would be better than a smooth bore rifle if loading with shot for small game.

Every smooth bore and rifle shoots different. The more you try different loads the more you can narrow it down for the best accuracy or pattern. People who shoot a lot are generally more accurate with their weapons. I personally don’t shoot any competitions any more. I’m just a hunter now. If you buy a trade gun and really play with it you can get good accuracy with a smooth bore and ball

 

[Steve Martin]

I have a 20 gauge/ .62 caliber NWTG from Sitting Fox that I enjoy very much. Very accurate out to 40 or 50 yards with a patched .60 caliber ball. #4 and #5 shot out to 30 yards are ok but not what I would call "tight" patterns. Very low recoil and fun to shoot, I end up shooting it more than all my other flints but I only shoot at my local range you understand - I am not a hunter and know nothing about how it would do in that regard but are the Trade Guns and Fusil de Chasse smoothbores interesting and fun to shoot? Yes!

 

[Red Owl]

On the accuracy, I was focused on the firearm not the shooter. To me, if I shoot off a rest- that is how accurate the firearm is, anyone else that shoots off the same rest with the same gun ought to get the same group. If I shoot off hand- then that is how well I shoot.

 

[FiremanBrad]

Mines likes to kill turkeys!!!

 

[Red Owl]

The reasons I'm asking these questions is that I have always shot percussion rifles and I want to build/shoot a flintlock. I automatically thought I wanted a rifle but I live in Florida where the shots are 35 yards many times. That got me re-thinking what I want. There is a re-enactment group from the Seminole Indian Wars so an early military musket is also on the possible list.

 

[Brazos John]

Mines likes to kill turkeys!!!

Fireman Brad,
I really like the sheath on the back side of your necessary bag. It solves an issue I've had when wearing belt knives: On my bag side, I couldn't get to my belt knife easily, so I would wear the knife on my right side, but that's my rifle side, so that didn't work too well, either. Your method looks like it's just what I need!
If folks have other knife ideas, let's start another thread. I don't want to get fussed at....
Now, back to NW Trade Guns from the OP.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Not much has been said recently on NW trade guns. Anyone use them? Hunt with them? How is the accuracy out to say 50 yards with a single ball and can you also load with shot for birds, etc. and how is the patterns with shot?

Ok so you're dealing with a single shot, shotgun. Shotgun hunting with traditional guns, can be a really distinctive side discipline to black powder shooting. There are a lot of techniques to shooting the shot to deal with the fact the barrel has no choke, aka the barrel is cylinder bore.

Likewise there are techniques to get the large ball to shoot well enough to take a deer out to 50 yards, and folks that spend a good deal of time can sometimes extend that effective range.

I hunt with a Pedersoli Indian Trade Musket and a Loyalist Arms LLC Trade Gun. Works well on small game. Haven't yet tried either on deer. Maybe this year.

I thought smooth bore rifles got maybe 2" groups around 50 yards, if the average trade gun gets 4" groups at fifty yards then that would be a significant difference to me. Never the less, the trade gun it seems would be better than a smooth bore rifle if loading with shot for small game.

Um..., well that's really going to be on a case-by-case basis. For example a .45 smoothbore is going to have a longer shot column if you used a 3/4 ounce load, than would a 20 gauge trade gun, BUT..., while that might be good on a squirrel, if you were swinging on a flying bird, you might find the lighter and perhaps shorter trade gun the better choice.

You'd be lucky or will spend a good amount of range time to get a smoothbore rifle to shoot a 2" group at 50 yards, from what I've seen. A 4" group would be acceptable on deer (again imho).

On the accuracy, I was focused on the firearm not the shooter. To me, if I shoot off a rest- that is how accurate the firearm is, anyone else that shoots off the same rest with the same gun ought to get the same group. If I shoot off hand- then that is how well I shoot.

Ummm, gee...,not really. While bench shooting reduces the variables, if you're talking trade guns or fusils which typically have no rear sight..., then there are still a lot of variables. Go from caplock to flintlock and you introduce even more variables. So the trade gun might still get the "same group" if we took turns with the same gun from the bench, but where the group was on the target might be very different. Add shooting off-hand, and you may simply have a better fit for that trade gun to your body than I do..., it may have nothing to do with personal shooting skill. I'd advise anybody hunting deer with a round ball and a trade gun to use some sort of supported position.

On the bright side..., there are no rear-sight-police in the field. Nothing stops a person from putting on a makeshift rear sight using the tang bolt.

LD

 

[Steve Martin]

I have seen photos of what are said to be original Trade guns and Fusil de Chasse too that had a rear sight "groove" filed into the breech tang, so perhaps that could be a help and still be considered HC.

 

[11th corps]

This one is mine. I built it from T.O.W. components about 15 years ago. 20 gauge, I shoot a .600 self cast r/ball with patch and 60 grains of FFF. It has a bead front sight, no rear sight.
Last month I shot this target off hand at 25 yards in our own Muzzleloading Forum monthly shoot. Not good enough to win, but fun none the less.
I have fired shot from it. No targets to post of the patterns. I might try that sometime this winter. I have been wanting to try my hand at shooting thrown clay pigeons with it.

 

[tenngun]

I have seen photos of what are said to be original Trade guns and Fusil de Chasse too that had a rear sight "groove" filed into the breech tang, so perhaps that could be a help and still be considered HC.

As I understand it no rear sight can be higher then the barrel and marks are ok on the tang. Includes file marks.
About 10% of known NWG had a rear sight added. And a few were nothing more then a flake of steel raised off the barrel and notched.

 

[toot]

.62 CAL, 20 gauge smooth bore seems to be the norm in NW- TRADE GUNS, why is that the HAPPY MEDIUN? were they made in larger CALIBRES? just courious?

 

[toot]

This one is mine. I built it from T.O.W. components about 15 years ago. 20 gauge, I shoot a .600 self cast r/ball with patch and 60 grains of FFF. It has a bead front sight, no rear sight.
Last month I shot this target off hand at 25 yards in our own Muzzleloading Forum monthly shoot. Not good enough to win, but fun none the less.
I have fired shot from it. No targets to post of the patterns. I might try that sometime this winter. I have been wanting to try my hand at shooting thrown clay pigeons with it.
View attachment 105631

now that pumpkin is ready for a pie!!!