NorthStar West TradeGun Photos

[Okwaho]

I've obviously not seen the musket in the Smithsonian, but I can tell you a bit about the other musket in the picture with mine. It was made by the Board of Ordnance in the early 1800s and issued to Canadian Militia a few years later and is refered to as a Sergeants fusil. When it was discovered the lock and barrel were coated in a bitumen type substance. The barrel has BO proof and viewers marks also the initials TL - poss Thomas Lowndes of Birmingham. The lock has a BO cypher and Tower externaly and TH on the inside poss Thomas Hadley of Birmingham. On the tang are further viewers marks and the number 39. I guess that muddys the water a bit more ?

Any way as to the so called Serjeant's fusil posted by justmike, I wasn't sure but the sideplate photo pretty well clinched it. That gun is in my opinion a first model India Pattern musket which came out about 1793.The first model had a gooseneck cock whereas the second model about 1809 had a double throated cock and was somewhat heavier in size."It [the earlier version ] is stocked to within 4 1/2 in. of the muzzle,the barrel being retained by three pins and the upper swivel screw.There are three brass ram rod pipes,a rounded sideplate and a trigger guard of a simpler pattern than the Land series.This musket retains the general out-lines of the Short Land musket but is shorter and not so well finished. They are by no means of poor quality,despite the introduction of cheaper simpler furniture.The stock carving of the Land Pattern and the form of the lock and butt are all retained-features which disappear on the New Land series.This pattern was first taken into Government service as an emergency measure in 1793 and was later accepted as a pattern for Government muskets in 1797.Overall length 55 1/4 in.,barrel length 39in.,calibre 0.75 in."
"British Military Longarms1715-1815" by D.W.Bailey, PP.32-35 Figures 21-28
There apparently was no Serjeant's or Officer's fusils although there was an India Pattern Carbine introduced Ca.1800 with a 26 in. barrel but "there is no evidence that this carbine was used in Canada but it is one of those which were available";"The Military Arms of Canada" by The Upper Canada Historical Arms Society, Historical Arms Series no.1,PP.14-15

There is little doubt in my mind but that the old gun illustrated by justmike is a first of the two India pattern muskets introduced in 1793 and modified in 1809.Ultimately the New Land Pattern musket with a 42in. barrel was introduced in 1802 and manufactured to some degree before 1815.It later became the major British musket through the Napoleonic wars and beyond.See "British Military Longarms 1815-1865" by D.W. Bailey for information on the New Land Pattern muskets and other arms through 1865 which covers the American Civil War.
Tom Patton

I stand on my opinion that the old gun illustrated by you is an India Pattern musket. I did go back and double check and I found nothing on a "Serjeant's Fusil" in any of Bailey's material BUT in going back to "The Military Arms Of Canada on P.11,Plate 20 I found an India Pattern Fusil illustrated from a collection in Canada.The only description is: "India Pattern Fusil introduced c.1800 Calibre .69 Bbl.length-39 in.The characteristics of this light musket are the same as those for the India Pattern Musket"

The gun illustrated has the reinforced cock which was introduced Ca.1809.The fusil other than the change of cock from gooseneck to reinforced apparently differs from the musket only in the caliber. Many British carbine models in the 18th century were fitted with barrels of "carbine bore" which was about .65-.69.but retained the barrel length of the musket. This decrease in bore size naturally decreased the overall weight of the gun.I will say then that in my opinion the old gun illustrated by you is an India Pattern Fusil with the 1800 gooseneck cock and fitted with a barrel of carbine bore of approximately .65 to .69 caliber.I don't know if it will help you and you will probably have to go through your local library but there is a book out.F.Harding,"Smallarms of the East India Company 1600-1856". I don't have it but I think I'll have to go through inter library loan.
Tom Patton

 

[Towwoh]

I have an India Pattern sergeant's fusil like the one posted above. However, mine has been converted to percussion using an American made lock, so I have no markings other than the British proof marks on the barrel. It has a 39" barrel and is 70 cal at the muzzle. There is checkering at the wrist which shows signs of lots of wear. I don't know it's original to the gun(which would indicate private ownership) or was added later by an American owner. This gun was collected in southern Maine in the late 1930's.

 

[mastrsgt]

Tom,

I'm not sure if it nomenclature difference or not. There are references with full description in Bailey's "Pattern Dates for British Ordnance" to a Pattern 1770 Serjeant of Grenadier Carbine on page 103. there are also pictures on page 80 of the same. There are also refenrences to the same in Neumann's "Battle Weapons of the American Revolution" and Ahearn's "Muskets of the Revolution".

I guess I'm wondering what the difference is between a fusil and a carbine?

Don R