Non-Toxic Roundballs?

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

ltdann

32 Cal
Joined
Jun 25, 2022
Messages
23
Reaction score
50
Location
socal
Rotometals bismuth mix is approved for hunting in CA. If it's approved here, it's good everywhere....this place is draconian when it comes to lead....don't even have lead wheel weights here. IF you don't dry ball (like I did) it'd kill a deer. It's expensive compared to lead...would it work...probably. Believe me, I think the lead ban stuff is bad science for big game. It makes sense for waterfowl due to the digestive system in play.

Lead free 30-06 cost me $54 for a box of 20... Turkey rounds for my 870 are $12 a shell.
 

Major Dorman

32 Cal.
Joined
Dec 11, 2015
Messages
66
Reaction score
32
Look up any state game laws. They mirror USFW laws where applicable. Oh and by the way, the 'hunters digest' or whatever it's called in your state is not the actual law! Don't believe me ask a 'fish cop'.
Show me where the federal law says it’s illegal to shoot a rifle over or from water. I can’t find it anywhere.
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2018
Messages
3,983
Reaction score
5,050
This scare about lead killing off eagles and such makes no sense. DDT was the culprit and notice how their population has boomed when it was banned and we are still using lead. Megatons of lead have been fired in the past 400 years with no apparent ill effect.

Climate change/warming is a clear and present danger for the Earth. In the past those changes took place over millions of years not the 2-3 hundred we're now looking at. Many plants, wildlife and even much of humanity can't adapt to that. It's not just us but the entire planet that will either fix this or die with it. Parts of the Earth will become hot enough they will be almost unlivable. Where I live the total snowfall for winter has dropped each year of the last five and is less than half of what it was just 5 years ago.
The snow fall thing is good, I hate shoveling snow. 😁
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2018
Messages
1,027
Reaction score
1,045
Since most will not bother to google it-

actual copy and paste from USFW website (one of many I could post)-

'Shooting across bodies of water or a Forest Service road is prohibited'

Quotations are mine. Read the the rules that apply to you some time. They can be quite sobering. Have you @Major Dorman? The only projectile that can be legally shot across any body of water in all 50 states in from a smoothbore and is non-tox shot. I really don't care if you believe me not. It's your hunting license that is at stake, not mine. Like I've previously stated several times now, I DON'T agree with the rules, but they are what they are.
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2018
Messages
3,983
Reaction score
5,050
Ducks have a gizzard. Ducks eat small rocks, and sometimes lead. The gizzard grinds the lead up, increases the surface area, and the lead is absorbed into the bloodstream. So, in a few areas with hard bottomed waterways the ducks can get poisoned. In most places we hunt the bottom of the pond is mud. The ducks can not dabble shot from mud. IMHO the few areas that had a problem were used as an excuse to mandate steel shot.

Steel shot....it a poor substitute from a ballistic and terminal ballistic standpoint. Many more ducks are wounded and lost with steel shot than lead shot.

Raptors. Not sure. I do know that bald eagles are fish eaters. How the get lead from fish I am not sure.

Condors...that was a scam. I was at ground zero. The evidence to linked bullet lead to condor lead was fabricated. The testing data was destroyed to avoid peer review. The test used measured isotope ratios of bullet lead and lead from other sources like paint and trash. The FBI got in big trouble for using this testing procedure. The testing procedure was hokum. Bullet lead is made from giant pigs of recycled lead. There is nothing special or identifiable about it.

The condors that have lead poisoning issues are the same birds over and over. They eat trash and lead paint. There was pictures of them doing it on a fire tower that is now scrubbed from the net. These same birds are/were fed still borne dairy calves. Those calves were often still born due to the cow eating trash or licking paint. The paint contained lead. The calves contained lead. The condors got lead poisoning.
The lead the eagles get from eating fish is the same lead you get from eating fish, theres probaly not a fish in the water that does not have some lead in its system.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2018
Messages
1,027
Reaction score
1,045
Or How about this proposed ban on anything lead on FED lands?

Biden Administration Moves to Ban Lead Ammunition​

Posted on June 9, 2022
Tweet
Share
Share
0SHARES
Following through on their commitment to environmental radicals that it would ban lead on federal public land, today the US Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) released proposed regulations that begin this process on National Wildlife Refuges across the country. The Biden Administration’s proposal lays the groundwork for additional lead prohibitions on refuges and provides a precedent that will be utilized to ban lead ammunition and tackle on all public lands where hunting and fishing occur.
Filed in the Federal Register on June 8, the USFWS commits to a lead ban on any new hunting opportunities on National Wildlife Refuges across the country. The proposal includes a new study on the impacts of lead ammunition and tackle on wildlife refuges.
While USFWS referred to “science” in the rulemaking as a basis for this decision, they did not cite any actual studies to support the decision. The study would seem unnecessary as the Biden Administration has previously announced its intention to return to the “Dan Ashe Rule.” Ashe, who served as Director of the Fish and Wildlife Service under President Obama, issued an order banning lead on all National Wildlife Refuges the day before President Trump was sworn in as President. The order was rescinded by newly appointed Secretary of the Interior Ryan Zinke on his first day on the job. With clear evidence that the Biden Administration has already made up its mind, it is unclear what purpose the research would serve other than as hand waving bureaucracy at its finest.
“The proposed lead ban on refuges kicks open the barn door to banning lead ammunition and tackle on all federal land, including National Forests, Bureau of Land Management Lands, National Preserves, and other areas,” explains Todd Adkins, Vice President of Government Affairs for the Sportsmen’s Alliance. “It provides a legal basis for radical animal rights and environmental groups to sue the federal government to force additional lead bans. In effect, President Biden is handing extremists a howitzer to fire at the Federal Government until the use of lead in ammunition and tackle for hunting and fishing is banned everywhere.”
The problems don’t stop with federal land. Because the USFWS distributes excise tax money from the purchase of firearms, ammunition, archery equipment and fishing gear to state fish and wildlife departments, the agency might attempt to force states to adopt similar bans on state public land. It is not unforeseeable to envision USFWS using its leverage the way the federal government once forced states to adopt seatbelt laws, alcohol age minimums and more.
“The most stunning and even insulting thing about this proposal is that it has been done with no consultation with the very people, hunters, anglers and trappers, who pay the lion’s share of conservation funding in the United States,” said Adkins. “Without these people there wouldn’t be recovered wildlife populations and abundant public land for all Americans to enjoy. This decision is beyond offensive to our greatest conservationists, American sportsmen and women.”
Sportsmen can send written comments opposing the proposal until August 8th, 2022. Comments may be submitted:
Electronically: Go to the Federal eRulemaking Portal: https://www.regulations.gov. In the Search box, type in FWS-HQ-NWRS-2022-0055, which is the docket number for this rulemaking. Then, click on the Search button. click on the Docket tab. On the resulting screen, find the correct document “2022–2023 Station-Specific Hunting and Sport Fishing Regulations” and submit a comment by clicking on “Comment.”
Or submit by U.S. mail or hand delivery: Public Comments, Processing, Attn: FWS-HQ-NWRS-2022-0055, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, 5275 Leesburg Pike, MS: PRB (JAO/3W), Falls Church, VA 22041–3803
Sportsmen should also contact their US Representative (Congressman) and both US Senators to oppose this extreme move by the Biden Administration. Please visit our Legislative Action Center and use the “Find Your Elected Officials” tool in the middle of the page to find their contact information.
About the Sportsmen’s Alliance: The Sportsmen’s Alliance protects and defends America’s wildlife conservation programs and the pursuits – hunting, fishing and trapping – that generate the money to pay for them. Sportsmen’s Alliance Foundation is responsible for public education, legal defense and research. Its mission is accomplished through several distinct programs coordinated to provide the most complete defense capability possible. Stay connected to Sportsmen’s Alliance: Online, Facebook, Twitter and Instagram.
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2018
Messages
3,983
Reaction score
5,050
Figured cant get the guns, so we take the ammo, and the guns are useless. These fools are always thinking of ways to destroy the 2nd. Stock up now on what you need and if you shoot un-mentionables best learn to re-load and stock up on that supply need also.
 
Joined
Apr 11, 2003
Messages
793
Reaction score
772
Location
Long Pond PA
I do believe that it is legal to shoot across a road in PA! You can't do this and you can't do that, and the politicians wonder why many people are talking about another revolution! How about Sleepy Joe, saying that we would need F 15's and tanks to overthrow the gov't! I felt it my duty to point out to the dumb a$$ to look back at our own revolution, or the French revolution, and how about Viet Nam? My constitution guarantees me the right to the pursuit of happiness and freedom. god did not anoint some politician to tell me what my Pursuit of happiness is!
 

cynthialee

70 Cal.
Joined
Jul 3, 2012
Messages
5,635
Reaction score
1,229
Location
Washington State
if you are forced to go with a hard non lead ball then go a bit smaller than you would normally with a thicker patch, you don't want that ball stuck, you ain't pulling it with a ball puller

our ancestors shot just about every form of metal and stone ball out of these guns some work better than others so them rotometal non lead balls will work

brass, and steel bearings will also work just fine and dandy, just need to learn your loads prime spot and limitations, and for sure do not dryball!
if it comes down to it, then we change up
 

Major Dorman

32 Cal.
Joined
Dec 11, 2015
Messages
66
Reaction score
32
Since most will not bother to google it-

actual copy and paste from USFW website (one of many I could post)-

'Shooting across bodies of water or a Forest Service road is prohibited'

Quotations are mine. Read the the rules that apply to you some time. They can be quite sobering. Have you @Major Dorman? The only projectile that can be legally shot across any body of water in all 50 states in from a smoothbore and is non-tox shot. I really don't care if you believe me not. It's your hunting license that is at stake, not mine. Like I've previously stated several times now, I DON'T agree with the rules, but they are what they are.
So you’re telling me that it’s illegal to shoot a deer with a rifle on the other side of the creek in my back pasture? I can’t find that law anywhere. I guess I’m not too good at the google.
 

Major Dorman

32 Cal.
Joined
Dec 11, 2015
Messages
66
Reaction score
32
Can you shoot a deer from a boat in Alabama?

Persons may hunt from a floating craft or motor vehicle once the motor is shut off and all forward motion has ceased. It is not legal to hunt from a vehicle on a public road.
1657596166272.png

Official Hunting & Fishing Seasons & Rules › pro...

Prohibited Methods of Hunting - Alabama Hunting - eRegulations

 
Joined
Aug 22, 2021
Messages
103
Reaction score
116
When I was a kid in the '50's and '60's, bald eagles were extremely rare to nonexistent where I lived. Thanks to the ban on DDT, they're doing well today. However, lead (smaller than a grain of rice) ingested especially by waterfowl and scavengers (vultures and birds of prey) are affected by the lead we shoot. California's lead problems seem to me to be unique. Weren't the California Condors' population down to a dozen birds or so at one time? Lead from unrecovered animals or lead shards left in gutted out animals has been been shown to end up in scavengers' bodies resulting in their death. At least in habitats that Condors live in, I'm for a lead ban there. It is not unusual at all to see stories of lead poisoning in bald eagles that are cared for in Raptor Recovery hospitals in my state. Lead poisoning happens and is real.
I don't completely buy the lead poisoning thing. Ravens are the most prolific scavengers in the woods. Where are the dead ravens killed by lead ingestion. I've seen the photos of eagles. The same photos on different sites. I believe that most of the lead ingested by the condors came from pollution from China. Those birds spend a lot of time in the stratosphere breathing pollution.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2018
Messages
1,027
Reaction score
1,045
Oh for crying out loud, the link you posted is some commercial site. It is not a govt site. Here is the code#, offense, and scheduled fine amount for taking deer on public water in Alabama based on APPENDIX B. SUPREME COURT’S EXTENDED SCHEDULE OF FINES -

9-11-250 Taking deer from public water $500
 
Joined
Jan 22, 2019
Messages
666
Reaction score
1,072
Location
Adirondacks
How about a ban on toxic politicians! Start with anybody in office for more then 2 terms, you're gone!

But that will never happen, because everyone is too committed to "their" guy, he's the good one. It's all the others that are corrupt. When really, it's a corrupt process and they're all dirty, just a matter of degrees.
 
Top