NMLRA Member or NOT

[Desert Rat]

Was disappointing in general, found it poor doings over all and won't be going back.

I agree it is getting samller, but it is also the biggest trade event we have going here. I always try and save up some of my "shopping needs" for the winter nationals so I can try and support the TRADERS who make the effort and trip to come out. As far as the actual shoot goes.... never have and don't plan on it, but it is a good time to catch up with folks that I only see there once a year.

Oh, Not a member of the NMLRA

 

[Greenmtnboy]

NMLRA yup -woods
NRA- ustabee but they got to slinging so much :bull: in the last election it made me want to :barf: and hay the now(Bush) administration had the whole dang country so scared I wern't afraid of losing nothing but my Constitutional freedoms.
I just rejoined now that Hillary is gonna be the next MAN!! elected Prez :shake:

I know that this may piss some of you olboys off but I hate being lied to by an elected official as well as one of the biggest lobbyist groups in the US. Last stand of defence or not!!

 

[Greenmtnboy]

Certainly I am a member as I am of the NRA and TMA. I also supported the shooting programs of YHEC, Boy Scouts and 4H at various times. I hope to assist the Royal Rangers in the coming year.

As to the issues with the NMLRA, frankly I agree with RB on one point in particular:

4) They compromised the special significance of the "Long Hunters Record Book" by opening the doors to allow trophies to also be listed that were taken with modern, high tech, long range scope sighted inlines just because they were "muzzleloaders".

and am not far off on other points as well.

However, they are our only certified ML program, source of trainers and system of rules and largest sponsor of activities. I will stay inside and vote rather than abandon the strongest structure for ML activities. I see little else stepping up to fill this important void, so I will continue to support it with prayers, treasure and time.

I must say that I do not appreciate your periodic rantings against the group about past history that people have addressed years ago. This is another example of your ongoing attempts to damage the organization. I understand that some unfortunate events have taken place; the group has made some changes; some realities are unpalatable to your faction and you will not move on.

Why not try to build rather than damage for a big change? Trumpet and support the TMA. Start a ML wing of the NRA. Organize a local or regional group that is strong enough to gain some recognition. But no, we get the periodic line of negativity.

CS

:bow: :bow: :bow:

 

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

Good Afternoon Afternoon AKA,

I am a life member of both the NRA and NMLRA, as well as a number of other shooting organizations.

The organizations have served me well over the years, and I do what I can to support them.

The price of freedom is never cheap. whether it be human sacrifice or money. Should I choose to do so, I can always find or invent an excuse to not belong to any of these organizations.

Has anybody ever given any thought to what the state of firearms ownership in the USA would be if the NRA, the NRMLA, and the other organizations did not exist?

I gave up many years ago trying to explain to gun owners who just do not give a big c***, about the importance of supporting the NRA, NMLRA, and other shooting organizations.

Trying to explain the need to present a solid front to counter the dis-loyal opposition, to those who do not and will not support the one association that fights for us gun owners everday, reminds me of an old Korean Proverb that translates to something like this,

"Trying to speak with the unenlightened, is like trying to build a rock house by watering stones".

It is a closed debate and issue to me, to the point where I will not do any firearms work or give advice to some one unlesss they can show me a current NRA or NMLRA Membership card.

Like William Barret Travis at the Alamo, I have drawn my line in the sand and "shall never surrender or retreat".

And Mike, your points cannot be argued with.

Best regards and good shooting,

John L. Hinnant,
A 6th generation Native Texan still living in Texas

If you are not an NRA or NMLRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load.

Poilticians Lie!! US Freedoms Die!!!

 

[dtruex]

Member, Ohio

 

[Greenmtnboy]

If you are not an NRA or NMLRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load.

Poilticians Lie!! US Freedoms Die!!!

John I, like so many others hang on your and other forum members words when it comes to muzzleloading.
I just have one question. Should we support a group that has lied to us sportsman, guides, gun enthusiast, Nature lovers. to further their political gain financially wile saying they are protecting our best interest.(NOT THE WOODS I RUN IN !!)
I am first and foremost a constitutionalists of the worst kind. My great grandfather was on the VT legislature ( a staunch fighter against the social reformers and prohibition, religion be damed!) and my family refused to fight in the Civil war because of the LIES!! Lincoln was handing us.
What makes the NRA any different, I support it because as a fucking hillbilly I am supposed to but I for one can read between the lines.
:shake:
I want to wholeheartedly support the NRA. But I hate!! being lied to

 

[CrackStock]

Ohio Joe -- Don't get off that soapbox -- you were making great sense! :hatsoff:

It is good to look around and see that I am in such good company here.

By the way, I agree with you so much about the NRA that I got a Life membership many years ago. I just did not mention it above. They are our first line of protection for any type of gun. NMLRA now coordinates with them and I see that as a great thing.

Rabbit03 TY for your support. I'll look you up for my Senate bid after I retire. :rotf:

Greenmtnboy -- it is good to know that our differing political beliefs do not separate us from supporting our 2nd amendment rights together.
:bow:

Mike Roberts -- good stuff -- as usual. :hatsoff:

John -- Read my new sig line

CS
If you are not an NRA or NMLRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load.
(Shamelessly plagiarized from John Hinnant)

 

[ronrryan]

Yes a member in FL, in spite of some unhappiness with the organization and the magazine (which can't hold a candle to MUZZLELOADER, IMHO) Good smoke, ron in Venice, FL

 

[paulvallandigham]

You can't change an organization for the better if you are NOT a member. That is why you should join. The only organization I have withdrawn from was a state association that voted to change its by-laws so that no one other than hand picked candidates could run for office. You Can't change an organization with those kinds of rules, so I left. I helped form another group, and we are doing things that other association can only dream of doing. Our association is growing while they are keeping quiet about their lack of growth. Some of their board members have joined my association. I don't know if that is to keep track of what we are doing- know thy enemy- or if they are quietly preparing to jump ship, too.

Lord knows how many problems the NRA has had, and still has, and He knows all the problems with the NMLRA. All groups have trouble when they are spread out so far that they have to rely on the judgment and work of volunteers they don't even know personally. And decisions, and policies that are made by one group will anger members, who leave, and may not reflect the same decision that the national board of directors would have made, or would want to have made. But if you don't belong, you can't call the director up.

I tend to agree with John Hinnant. If you are not going to help, you become part of the problem. I also restrict my advice to members of my associations. When my local groups raises enough money to buy land for a home range, we already have plans to make it open to only members of the NRA, and our local group. Some of the local members have complained about the policy, but in my Blackpowder club, NRA membership is how we maintain a low cost liability policy to insure the club and the landowner against claims for injuries. We can't even snap a cap without that insurance, so we just don't listen too long to the folks who refuse to join the NRA. We don't argue with them. We just tell them that its required to shoot on our range. Honor the people who have given you the rights you enjoy today. Without the NRA, and the NMLRA, we would have nothing.

Apparently some of you were not around whe the NMLRA, with help from the NRA fought a long and costly battle against the IRS to limit the imposition of the Excise tax on custom built MLers. IRS had sent one gunmaker a bill for thousands of dollars he didn't have because they claimed he should have paid a 10% excise tax on every gun he built and sold over the years, plus interest. Without the NMLRA that battle would not have been won, and gunbuilders would have had to raise their sales price to collect that additional tax for every gun they made for us.The NMLRA has standardized a lot of range rules, as well as shooting matches, has sponsored the Levi Garrett postal matches all over the country, so that members living too far away to realistically participate in the shooting programs at Friendship can still shoot a national shooting program in their home state, with the results being recognized. That is just one example of what the NMLRA has done for all of us, whether you are directly affected or not. If you had any idea of what it would cost you, as a single shooter, to hire the kind of expertise, and skills needed to protect your rights to own firearms and shoot them, you would be willing to pay twice as much in dues to belong to this organization.

Please join the NMLRA and help us improve it from within. Some of you live out west. We need volunteers and the imput of many shooters to improve the programs offered out west. Some of you are rendezvousers. Some have had bad experiences. Do the current Board members know what you saw, or experienced that was unfair? I bet not. If you join, you can tell them, and then they can try to do something about it.

It really is the squeaky wheel that gets the grease, in all volunteer associations. Stop thinking that this is a rich Corporation with paid CEOs, and lots of staff to do all the work. The NRA is now that wealthy, but the NMLRA is still struggling. Its doing far better in the last couple of years than ever in the past 20 years. I have been a member on and off for most of the last 40 years so I have a bit of perspective on all this. If you see a current Muzzle Blasts, you will also see that its a " letters to the Editor " column in it. I lobbied for that change over 20 years ago, and brought it up with the new editor when he came on board. I don't know if he heard from lots of people, but he heard from me. I'd like to think I had something to do with this quiet, and sensible addition to the magazine. It allows people to bring up matters not covered in the magazine, and to make complaints about things that could be better. That is just one of the changes I have seen. If you have not been to the primitive area of Friendship in the last 10 years, you are missing out on all the construction that has been ongoing there, building a fort, and palisade fence around the perimeter. The workmanship has been outstanding, and contributes to the historic feeling of the range.

 

[TxRambler]

After reading a similar thread, I decided to join and see for myself, which I did about 3 weeks ago. They have 1 year to prove themselves to me. I have recieved nothing yet except the e-mail reciept, but considereing the incredible amount of junk mail I have gotten from the NRA, that is not necessarily a bad thing. I joined the NRA about a year ago. SE Texas.

 

[Ohio Joe]

Well said, Paul! :hatsoff:

I can't add much to what you stated above, but I can surely echo how bad off the muzzle loading community would be without the NMLRA. The NMLRA is our most current history of the muzzle loading
sports and events, then and now.

I thank the good lord that folks cared enough about muzzle loading in the 1930's to give it - it's rebirth in our country and I do believe it helped the spread of this interest into other countries.

I for one am greatful we have the NMLRA. I think if more clubs and organizations would approach the NMLRA, they too would find they have friends there, and the sharing of ideas and goals could be a very worthy venture for all concerned.

I would highly recommend that anyone, member or not, of the NMLRA, should go to Friendship, Indiana sometime and just see what many of us are talking about that have been there. You don't need to compete in the matches if you don't want to as there is plenty of stuff to see and do that will give you a feeling like no other ever has if your passion is muzzle loading. The place speaks for itself, and it speaks volumes! :thumbsup:

 

[Greenmtnboy]

Well said Paul,
:hatsoff:

 

[TANSTAAFL]

I agree it is getting samller, but it is also the biggest trade event we have going here. I always try and save up some of my "shopping needs" for the winter nationals so I can try and support the TRADERS who make the effort and trip to come out.

Same here, I dropped a few hundred bucks while there this year. I talked to some people who said NMLRA never so much as did the least bit of local advertizing for the event.


Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H.L. Mencken

 

Yep! Join the NRA but don't give them yer phone number. They'll hound ya about every two weeks for more $$$.

As for the NMLRA, there are some inspiring arguements for joining. I may reconsider my position on this. :hmm:

 

[akapennypincher]

The NRA is very active politically both Locally, and also at State & National Level. They look out for Gun Owners Rights, and have a powerful lobbying Machine to fight the Anti gunners.

I know at most of the Major Gun Show in Arizona there is always a NRA presence/booth, and the NRA has local people answering questions, and also trying to get new members at the GUN SHOWS.

But we as GUN OWNER NEED to be Politically active, and write our Elected Officials about our concerns, and LAST VOTE in Support of Pro Gun Candidates.

It is amazing to me how many Gun Owners do not Vote or even Register to Vote.

I personally get an Early/Absentee Ballot for every election, and Vote by MAIL. That is one of the most important thing I do Biannually.

 

[akapennypincher]

I talked to some people who said NMLRA never so much as did the least bit of local advertizing for the event.

I have been in the Phoenix Metro AREA over 10 years, and have never seen any local advertizing for the event. :snore: :snore:

 

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

Good Morning Greenmtnboy,

As you know, my personal policy is not to engage in debate on the ML Forum; simply make my post and move on.

However, you did ask what I consider to be a rhetorical question. Out of common courteousy I will attempt to give you an answer. After that, this subject is closed for me.

I will not debate it.

I truly do not know or understand your post about an organization that lies to us or has a political financial gain.

That will have to be explained to me.

No organization is perfect all of the time to every member, but I have never thought that the NRA or NMLRA has lied to me except for one brief time in the second half of the 1970's

At that time, the NRA Leadership adopted a policy of appeasement to the anti-gun movement lead by USA President Jimmy Carter.

The philosophy was one of "Let's not upset or offend them (the anti-gunners)any more that they are now. Let's give them some of the things they want, and they will leave us alone".

Hard to believe that line of thought prevailed in the NRA, is it not. But it did for a period of two or three years and was getting worse.

I was outraged and so was the vast majority of the NRA Members.

Under the leadership of the late Neal Knox and Harlon Carter, we stormed, and I mean, WE STORMED, the Annual NRA Convention at Cincinnati, Ohio and took over the convention. The old leadership was throwed out. We took control of the NRA Board of Directors, put in Harlon Carter as NRA President and Neal Knox as Executive VP. This is the position that Wayne
LaPierre holds today.

From that point on, we, the NRA have taken the fight to the enemy, and make no mistake they are our enemy, not only to the 2nd Amendment, but all of our Bill of Rights.

Now this last statement is not intended to start a new point of debate, so folks do not start responding to that.

Claude is mighty touchy about political discussions here. You start debating that, and he might very well delete this whole thread.

The point is that as a non-member you have no voice and will never be able to make any changes.Only as an active working member, are you in a position to recruit like minded members and become a force in making change(s).

The "Cincinnati Reforms", as they are now called, proved that, beyond a shadow of doubt. I know! I was there!

And one person absolutely does makes a difference.

Did you know that our very own Declaration of Independence was decided on by the vote of one man. Had he voted "Nay", we would NOT have had a Declaration of Independence.

One vote in the US Senate in the late 1860's prevented the conviction of President Andrew Johnson of impeachment charges.

In 1980, a local ML Association started up a two day state level championship muzzle loading silhouette shoot.

Starting with 26 shooters, by 1989, it had became a howling success, had grown to just under 100 shooters and was still growing. The range was improved yearly to a point where 60 shooters at one time could stand on the firing line and shoot.

In 1989, a key member and shoot organizer left. Today, this advertised State Championship draws only 25-30 shooters, and the leadership today, cannot understand what has happened to the past big turnouts.

A champioship sports team is successful because of one man, the head coach. How many times have you seen a championship team lose the head coach and then decline. The fall from championship status continues until the right head coach is found again.

Businees is the same way. How many successful business ventures have started by one man. When that one man retires or dies, the once successful business then dies. Sometimes slowly; sometimes rapidly.

One man, one vote, makes a difference.

That is the best that I can explain my position. If it is not good enough, then it is just not good enough.

Personally, I have always thought that, IN MOST CASES, dropping out was an excuse, not a reason.

Anyway, these are my final thoughts on this subject. I will not address it again.

Best regards and good shooting,

John L. Hinnant

If you are not an NRA or NMLRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load.

Politicians Lie!! US Freedoms Die!!!

 

[Claude Mathis]

Claude is mighty touchy about political discussions here. You start debating that, and he might very well delete this whole thread.

Not accurate information. We have had a "politics" forum for two months.

 

[user 2647]

I agree completely, if you don't belong and vote to make changes you can't complain! :thumbsup:

 

[Runner]

While I refuse to vote on the subject, I would like to say that answering the question when asked is not comoplaining or whining. Because someone does not agree does not make the discussion a personal attack or an attack on some organization you support.