New to muzzleloading and needing some help

[coprhed5454]

Hi all,
Brand new to muzzleloading. Always thought it would be cool to have one but never really "wanted" one. Recently I have came to own a CVA Mountain Stalker sidelock and can't wait to get it in shooting order to see what it is about and be able to extend my deer hunting. I do have some issues that I would like to ask before loading a charge in it and rolling some smoke.
First question: There is some rust/corrosion in the bottom of the barrel that I am unable to get out. Will this "burn" out after a couple of shots or do I need to find a way to get it out before shooting it and if so how do I do that without removing the breech plug, which seems almost impossible?
Second question: This gun has 1:32 bore twist. Should I shoot conical bullets or powerbelts for this bore twist? I am thinking somewhere around 90-100 grains of powder.
Thanks in advance for any advise that you can give this greenhorn!

 

[bang]

Take it's 50cal. 1:48 would be better at all around ball, mini, maxi or bullet.
You can shoot ball but the charge will need to be kept kind of low.
Depth of grooves are somewhat dictators of projectile. Which if deep can be remedied with thicker patch in most cases.
I would start off at 40gns with 490 ball and 010 patch. If the ball start is real loose up it to 015 or 020 depending. Best to measure bore and figure from there. Bore minus 010 for ball. Patch will be the 010 or up. Work the charge up 5gns till accurate then continue till accuracy drop then back off.
Mini's typically run 60-70 gns. Too much the skirt will flare exiting muzzle causing drag and walk.
Maxi can be shot at higher charge but still have to work up load. I would start at 50gns and work up same.
Same with bullet.
Mini and such need to fit from easy thumb press start to -001 of bore.
Plenty of lubes out there. My go to is 70-75% wax to 25-30% veg oil heated together to congeal veg oil. Not very expensive to make.
Plenty of powders too. 2f or 3f will work. I shoot 3f so I can us one powder for long gun or revolver.
Cleaning can be done with soapy water. I find it best to wet swab when I'm through shooting and leave the bore good and wet at last swab. Makes the thorough cleaning at home easy. A small container with solution, a hose to put on the nipple, if percussion, and tight patch will push the solution completely through the breach, flash channel and nipple very well. Do not let it sit uncleaned. Causes nothing but problems.
Once thoroughly cleaned light oil for short term storage. If long term heavy.
Going to need horn or flask, powder measure, good nipple wrench, nipple pick, patch jag, puller jag, patch chaser jag, short starter, small container for solution so you can swab bore occasionally and bag or such. Always put powder from horn or flask into measure then barrel. Cook off from hot ember very rare but better a single charge go off then an entire horn or flask.

 

[ord sgt]

You could wrap some 0000 steel wool around a cleaning jag and "polish" the bore. Then take some clean patches and wipe the barrel clean. A light coating of oil is next. Be sure to wipe the barrel dry before loading the rifle for your first shot. Get in the habit of wiping the bore clean after each shot. This will establish good habits.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Heed wat Ord Sgt said. Your twist will work best with a bullet instead of a patched round ball. But, do try a prb. In this game you never really know what is going to happen. The prb might just be accurate.

 

[coprhed5454]

Thanks for the reply, Bang. Yes it is 50 cal and percussion. I was a little off on the powder amount apparently. Glad I came here before loading 100 grains in and becoming very aggravated with the gun not being accurate and it being the amount of powder I was using that was causing it instead.
Do you know if the rust/corrosion in the bottom of the barrel at the breech plug will come out with firing the rifle or do I need to do something about that before hand? The drum seems to be clear but I can see a little junk in the barrel, not much at all, through the drum.

 

[coprhed5454]

You could wrap some 0000 steel wool around a cleaning jag and "polish" the bore. Then take some clean patches and wipe the barrel clean. A light coating of oil is next. Be sure to wipe the barrel dry before loading the rifle for your first shot. Get in the habit of wiping the bore clean after each shot. This will establish good habits.

Thank you Ord Sgt! Never even thought about trying steel wool. For the oil, is it best to use something like Rem Oil or should I use Bore Butter?

 

[coprhed5454]

Heed wat Ord Sgt said. Your twist will work best with a bullet instead of a patched round ball. But, do try a prb. In this game you never really know what is going to happen. The prb might just be accurate.

Riffleman1776, yes I would actually like to use bullets for reg muzzleloader season and maybe PRB for primitive season. We have an area close that is primitive only and I would assume that PRB would be needed for that area. Thanks for the reply.

 

[mooman76]

Some of the rust may come out when firing but not all. Do as the others said to get rid of rust. I've shot PRBs out of a 1-20 twist with light loads ( 55gr in a .54)and they shot fine. An over powder wad when shooting conicals sometimes improves accuracy. Bore butter is ok for a bullet/patch lube, not the best but works. Oil is needed for the barrel to prevent rust after you clean your gun. What area are you from? might likely be someone here is close to you and can help you. Don't attempt to remove the breech. It could mess your gun up allot. Leave that for someone that has the knowledge to do it right. On your particular gun, the breech is not made to be removed.

 

[Carbon 6]

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/cva-mountain-stalker-range-report.37068/

 

[Grenadier1758]

Bore Butter used lightly will work as a lubricant for a patched round ball. Bore Butter can be too slick for best performance in a fast twist rifle. Just the tiniest amount to keep fouling shot to shot soft. Rem Oil is a god oil, but not in the top tier of rust inhibitors.. I would use Evapo-Rust (Evapo-rust site) to go after the rust at the breech. Use a threaded plug to stop at the nipple and pour some of the Evapo-rust down the bore and let set for a day or two. Then use your steel wool to scrub out the breech. You may need a 36 caliber brush to clean out the breech. Use Barricade as the rust inhibiting lubricant.

 

[bang]

Thanks for the reply, Bang. Yes it is 50 cal and percussion. I was a little off on the powder amount apparently. Glad I came here before loading 100 grains in and becoming very aggravated with the gun not being accurate and it being the amount of powder I was using that was causing it instead.
Do you know if the rust/corrosion in the bottom of the barrel at the breech plug will come out with firing the rifle or do I need to do something about that before hand? The drum seems to be clear but I can see a little junk in the barrel, not much at all, through the drum.

Run some steel wool in it this will get the loose stuff. Then put some cold blue in it. It seems it was not thoroughly cleaned before and why there is rust. Follow cleaning instructions and it should not rust again.
Work your loads up for each projectile. What works for one may not work for others.
Treat all propellants as corrosive when cleaning. Only use pure lead projectiles. Muzzleloader barrels can't handle hard projectiles. Harder alloy lead is not so much an issue if shooting with patch because it never contacts the bore but pure lead always best. Black powder and substitutes have pressure limits so only use what provides accuracy. Too many disregard the science.
I use Pyrodex "P" in mine but do so for availability and price. Plenty of other powders out there.
Your rifle should use #11 primers. There are subtle differences in brands but for most an 11 is an 11. Since it is used I would get a new nipple. Since there is some rust in breach it's possible there is some in orifice of nipple. Get one extra to have on hand.
When you start testing loads shoot for grouping before you adjust sights. More important to obtain group to load first keep point of aim (POA) first the obtain point of impact (poi). Start at 20-25 yards.

 

[user 48679]

I would actually like to use bullets for reg muzzleloader season and maybe PRB for primitive season.

We have an area close that is primitive only and I would assume that PRB would be needed for that area.

You know what "assume" can do , so I would respectfully suggest you contact your state's F&G Dept to be sure.

IME, "primitive season" usually refers to the projectile launcher (gun or bow), but some states may also specify what projectiles may/may not be used. (my state does not)

 

[Spikebuck]

I would actually like to use bullets for reg muzzleloader season and maybe PRB for primitive season. We have an area close that is primitive only and I would assume that PRB would be needed for that area.

Welcome to the forum and congrats on your sidelock purchase. You'll love it.

Be careful with what you suggest above unless, and ONLY unless, you have taken the time to work up accurate loads, which could be significantly different, for the bullet vs the PRB. I'm only saying this because you said you were new to muzzleloading and sometimes people familiar with shoving modern cartridges into the end of a centerfire rifle don't necessarily understand the huge difference in where different projectiles will hit that can happen in the muzzleloading game. So if you have an area you KNOW you want to hunt, you may want to work up your load for that projectile and just stick to it for other areas that don't have so many restrictions.

Now, and some may bash me for this one , IF the gun only worked with a low charge of 40 grains of 2Fg behind a .490 PRB (in fast twist shallow groove barrels, big loads can cause a PRB to "strip" past the rifling) I'd skip it for hunting big game and stick with the conical and a higher charge even if I could not hunt in the primitive area (assuming it called out PRB only). Either that or I'd want to literally be right on top of the animal with a very low charge PRB combination...and I personally consider 40 gr a LOW charge for consistently effective big game killing power. That said, a member here recently took a deer with a BP Pistol with 35 grs, so it can work, but he was also literally "right on top of it." If you did it, you'd have to be willing to be very close, IMO.

Good luck with your new adventure!

 

[jeff b]

Bore Butter used lightly will work as a lubricant for a patched round ball. Bore Butter can be too slick for best performance in a fast twist rifle. Just the tiniest amount to keep fouling shot to shot soft. Rem Oil is a god oil, but not in the top tier of rust inhibitors.. I would use Evapo-Rust (Evapo-rust site) to go after the rust at the breech. Use a threaded plug to stop at the nipple and pour some of the Evapo-rust down the bore and let set for a day or two. Then use your steel wool to scrub out the breech. You may need a 36 caliber brush to clean out the breech. Use Barricade as the rust inhibiting lubricant.

Dont get Evapo-rust on the outside of barrel it wil take the blueing off

 

[coprhed5454]

Run some steel wool in it this will get the loose stuff. Then put some cold blue in it. It seems it was not thoroughly cleaned before and why there is rust. Follow cleaning instructions and it should not rust again.
Work your loads up for each projectile. What works for one may not work for others.
Treat all propellants as corrosive when cleaning. Only use pure lead projectiles. Muzzleloader barrels can't handle hard projectiles. Harder alloy lead is not so much an issue if shooting with patch because it never contacts the bore but pure lead always best. Black powder and substitutes have pressure limits so only use what provides accuracy. Too many disregard the science.
I use Pyrodex "P" in mine but do so for availability and price. Plenty of other powders out there.
Your rifle should use #11 primers. There are subtle differences in brands but for most an 11 is an 11. Since it is used I would get a new nipple. Since there is some rust in breach it's possible there is some in orifice of nipple. Get one extra to have on hand.
When you start testing loads shoot for grouping before you adjust sights. More important to obtain group to load first keep point of aim (POA) first the obtain point of impact (poi). Start at 20-25 yards.

Thanks again, Bang. That is some good info.

 

[coprhed5454]

Some of the rust may come out when firing but not all. Do as the others said to get rid of rust. I've shot PRBs out of a 1-20 twist with light loads ( 55gr in a .54)and they shot fine. An over powder wad when shooting conicals sometimes improves accuracy. Bore butter is ok for a bullet/patch lube, not the best but works. Oil is needed for the barrel to prevent rust after you clean your gun. What area are you from? might likely be someone here is close to you and can help you. Don't attempt to remove the breech. It could mess your gun up allot. Leave that for someone that has the knowledge to do it right. On your particular gun, the breech is not made to be removed.

Thanks, Moonman 76. You are saying that loading the conicals like a round ball with a patch may help with accuracy with conicals.

 

[coprhed5454]

Welcome to the forum and congrats on your sidelock purchase. You'll love it.

Be careful with what you suggest above unless, and ONLY unless, you have taken the time to work up accurate loads, which could be significantly different, for the bullet vs the PRB. I'm only saying this because you said you were new to muzzleloading and sometimes people familiar with shoving modern cartridges into the end of a centerfire rifle don't necessarily understand the huge difference in where different projectiles will hit that can happen in the muzzleloading game. So if you have an area you KNOW you want to hunt, you may want to work up your load for that projectile and just stick to it for other areas that don't have so many restrictions.

Now, and some may bash me for this one , IF the gun only worked with a low charge of 40 grains of 2Fg behind a .490 PRB (in fast twist shallow groove barrels, big loads can cause a PRB to "strip" past the rifling) I'd skip it for hunting big game and stick with the conical and a higher charge even if I could not hunt in the primitive area (assuming it called out PRB only). Either that or I'd want to literally be right on top of the animal with a very low charge PRB combination...and I personally consider 40 gr a LOW charge for consistently effective big game killing power. That said, a member here recently took a deer with a BP Pistol with 35 grs, so it can work, but he was also literally "right on top of it." If you did it, you'd have to be willing to be very close, IMO.

Good luck with your new adventure!

Thanks, Spikebuck.

 

[bang]

Thanks, Moonman 76. You are saying that loading the conicals like a round ball with a patch may help with accuracy with conicals.

A wad is a flat pad under bullet base. It does not wrap around the bullet. It provides a stable platform for the pressure of the charge to push evenly across the base of the bullet.
Projectiles that fit at or just less than bore can be seated in a slight not square to bore. There are seating jags that help this but a wad also can help at ignition.

 

[deermanok]

You can get a small tool called a fouling scraper. It attaches to the ramrod. Good for cleaning out that crud at the bottom of the barrel. Available at track of the wolf.
I also have a small portable steam cleaner that I got on Ebay for about 30 bucks. It really does a great job of blasting out the barrel and flame channel.

 

[coprhed5454]

You know what "assume" can do , so I would respectfully suggest you contact your state's F&G Dept to be sure.

IME, "primitive season" usually refers to the projectile launcher (gun or bow), but some states may also specify what projectiles may/may not be used. (my state does not)

Pietro, I have said that phrase pretty much my entire life. LOL. But sometimes we still "assume" when we shouldn't. I am not sure about the primitive area as far as projectiles. I know you can't shoot inline or have a scope. I would want to do PRB, if I can get the different loads worked out, as a personal preference though as that to me is more "primitive" than conicals.