New to cap & ball revolvers

Discussion in 'Handguns' started by Chaco24, Feb 5, 2019.

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  1. Feb 10, 2019 #61

    Chaco24

    Chaco24

    Chaco24

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    I live in Dallas/Fort Worth metroplex (Azle), and I’m finding it very difficult to find real black powder for sale locally. Cabela’s and Bass Pro Shop only have Pyrodex RS (FFG) and Tripple 7 (FFG) in stock.
     
  2. Feb 10, 2019 #62

    hawkeye2

    hawkeye2

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    Its selling point is that a seller doesn't need an explosives liscence and special storage facilities for it. It can sit on the shelf with the smokeless propellents and even WallyWorld can sell it. Black powder is classified as an explosive and the requirements are much different. In addition it opened a whole new market bringing in muzzleloader shooters who had been turned off by having to use nasty, smelly, corossive powder that didn't have the power to shoot an elongated plastic coated projectile with enough force to take anything larger than a field mouse and all that from some stainless and plastic...well, I'd better stop there. Actually synthetic BP subs do have their place because a lot of shooters can't find the real thing in their area or there are restrictions and by using a substitute they can enjoy their traditional muzzleloaders.
     
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  3. Feb 10, 2019 #63

    Eutycus

    Eutycus

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    I do recall the "enthusiasm" when Pyrodex first became readily available. But bless them for that, it helped " fan the flames" of muzzle loading and blackpowder shooting.
     
  4. Feb 10, 2019 #64

    bang

    bang

    bang

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    I don't really remember what made me start using Pyrodex. Probably availability.
    I don't think it billows as much. Seems to not carbon up as much as black. Still get soot but don't think you can get away from that very easily.
    Over the years I came to use Pyrodex "p" in everything I shoot. For me it seems cleaner burning. It cured periodic hesitation issues in my rifles. Plus I don't have to stock but one type and I use a bit less volume then same performance of black. But that's me. Everybody has their preferences.
     
  5. Feb 10, 2019 #65

    8 BORE

    8 BORE

    8 BORE

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    Contact the Red River Renegades
    in Electra TX. There may be someone on that site to help with locating black powder
     
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  6. Feb 10, 2019 #66

    Juice Jaws

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    Just keep one cylinder empty and put the hammer down on that one. Just me but cap and ball revolver's look better in a leather holsters.
     
  7. Feb 10, 2019 #67

    Woodnbow

    Woodnbow

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    I don’t believe you need a mic. Try .454 for most replicas, .457 for Rugers, although those will work as well in the Italians, if a bit harder to load.

    Shoot it for a while. See if it needs anything at all beyond powder and ball. Most probably will not.
     
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  8. Feb 10, 2019 #68

    bang

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    Usually with revolvers a 45 uses a 457, 44 a 454 maybe 451 just depends on the quality of tolerances, 36 a 375. It should produce an ample ring of lead when rammed.
    Some revolvers can have cylinder bore diameter size that does not deliver a projectile that fully fits the barrel max diameter. An example is, a 44 cylinder with 0.44 max diameter usually has a cylinder bore of 0.449. A heavier load revolver like a dragoon or walker maybe 0.451. It is something you might look at if the accuracy is an issue. My walker cylinder was delivering a projectile that barely caught the riflings and left visible light at max barrel diameter. Plus the accuracy was not acceptable. So I hone polished the cylinder bore out to 0.451. I've only test fired 2 rounds and haven't had chance to put it to paper for accuracy yet but willing to bet it's a lot better.
    Rifle using patched ball, a ball that's 0.005, 0.010, 0.015 or 0.018 smaller than bore. Which ever is readily available and or provides required accuracy.
    My experience is if you can press the patched ball in the barrel with thumb pressure it's not tight enough.
    All guns are bit different in tolerances and what load and projectile works best.
    My Kentucky 45 typically should use a 0.440 ball and 0.010 patch. But it's too loose. It measures 0.456 so a 0.451 and 0.010 is probably going to be best.
    Powder load is important. Some choose to use heavy loads but I think the approach to shooting is more science than brawn.
    For a good starting point for any shooting a round ball I use a formula I worked out from an article I read about 40 years ago.
    Bore radius squared x 3.1416 x barrel length x 15.72 = grains, round up to next whole number or number in 10s or 5s.
    For example. My Hawken 45, 28 inch barrel comes out to 70.004 so I started with 70 grains.
    A revolver, 44, 5.5 barrel will work out to just under 19 so even 20 good start.
    It's not like factory ammo that's made to averages. Even that can be iffy between brands. Takes a bit of time to work out your guns preferences but once you find it you will be shooting consistant every time.
     
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  9. Feb 10, 2019 #69

    Rabbit Ears

    Rabbit Ears

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    I guess I'm an "Old Salt" when it comes from decades of shooting and experimenting with various products.

    1. Assume EVERY POWDER is corrosive.
    2. Clean your weapon scrupulously after use.
    3. lubricate weapon well with a fine gun oil.
    4. What gramps always said "You don't know when you are gonna' use her next, so really treat her right! She'll even feed your family in a pinch too."

    That Anti-seize compound on the nipples, I'll take that and pass it on!! Thanks!!
     
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  10. Feb 10, 2019 #70

    Zonie

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    Pyrodex was one of the first black powder substitutes on the market and its reason for being was to make a powder that was not listed as an explosive.
    Because Pyrodex does not explode when it burns in an open space, it is not listed as an explosive so it is less costly to ship and it can be sitting on a shelf in a gun store just like the smokeless powders can.
    Real black powder must be kept under lock and key in a special sealed box so it will never be seen for sale on a shelf in a store.

    Some people say the corrosive fouling left by Pyrodex is due to its use of Potassium Perchlorate but T7 which also uses Potassium Perchlorate for the oxidizer does not cause much corrosion. The most noticable difference between Pyrodex and T7 is, Pyrodex contains sulfur which may combine with moisture to create acids.
    T7 does not contain any sulfur.
     
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  11. Feb 10, 2019 #71

    hawkeye2

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    This is a quick way to find the bore and chamber relationship. Take a round ball or bullet, .454" will work, and start it into the muzzle. Tap it in with a soft (wood, rawhide, etc.) hammer and push it the length of the barrel with a cleaning rod. Take the ball and align the rifling marks parallel with the chamber walls and try to chamber it. If it goes in loose or with just a little pressure the chamber is larger than the bore. If it shaves lead then it's smaller then the bore. If you try to tap the ball into the chamber you will be enlarging the ball and won't get an accurate test.
     
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  12. Feb 10, 2019 #72

    Grenadier1758

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    Pyrodex produced less sooty fouling. You could shoot more rounds without wiping between shots. It was considered to be a non-explosive powder that did not have to be regulated with the same restrictions as black powder. Being less dense than black powder, but used the same volume measure as black powder meant that you would get mote shots per pound of Pyrodex than you could with a can of black powder.

    The fact that the actual fouling was more corrosive than black powder was overlooked in the hype for the new powder. The need for a much hotter ignition source and was totally unsuitable for flintlocks was also over looked.
     
  13. Feb 10, 2019 #73

    bang

    bang

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    I've been shooting Pyrodex in my percussions for years with no issues. It's definatly more available.
     
  14. Feb 11, 2019 #74

    FishDFly

    FishDFly

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    Did you contact the Dallas Muzzle Loading Club?

    Look at the Powder Inc. website for BP powder and a decent cylinder loading stand, it makes loading much easier.

    I will send you a PM on where to find BP powder, might mean a road trip, but not all that far.
     
  15. Feb 11, 2019 #75

    Chaco24

    Chaco24

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    1F2119FB-C27E-48A1-AC5E-80959F536D1A.jpeg
    I’m going to contact the Dallas Muzzle Loading Club today, and I purchased a Traditions™ Black Powder Revolver Loading Stand from Muzzleloaders.com. Thanks for the website info I’ll google them. I don’t mind a little road trip I’ve got a Harley-Davidson Street Bob I need to put some miles on .
     
  16. Feb 11, 2019 #76

    rodwha

    rodwha

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    Granted things aren’t as bad as they were several years back, but at the time when shooting supplies became harder to find I had always just drove the 1/2 hour or so to BassPro to pick up the 3F Triple 7 I used. But month after month after month it was nowhere to be found, which pushed me online.

    Went to Grafs and noticed the powder was quite a bit cheaper. Paying the shipping and HazMat always kept me from considering online as I just bought a pound at a time. But what I found was buying 3 pounds about broke me even but without the gas and potential waste of a trip.

    And I had always been curious to try an energetic black powder, then it was just Swiss and soon Olde Eynsford by Goex, and so I now mostly use 3F Olde E as it’s cheaper. One day I’ll get around to trying Swiss as some claim it’s still superior, though velocities are all similar.

    I’d suggest you give them a ring and ensure they’ll have what you want. Not sure if you are as peticular about powder as some of us are (I’m a hunter and require performance that the other powders just can’t achieve).
     
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  17. Feb 11, 2019 #77

    Chaco24

    Chaco24

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    Checked online and Graf & Sons seems to be the cheapest place online to buy either real black powder or black powder substitute (about $2 difference) and when buying 3lbs (under $125 with shipping and hazmat fee), looks like the way to go with their shipping and hazmat rates. Powder Inc. charges upwards of $150+ for 3lbs of real black powder including shipping and hazmat.
     
  18. Feb 11, 2019 #78

    rodwha

    rodwha

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    I didn’t really thoroughly check back then, but I chose them as some of the others insisted you buy in larger quantities, which I don’t want to do, but was the cheapest I had found for a few pounds. You can also tack on some percussion caps to ease the HazMat and shipping further. They don’t (or didn’t) sell Rem caps (I use #10’s for both my NMA and ROA, and rifle), but I’ve been curious to try the CCI non magnum #11’s as my Track of The Wolf nipples were designed for them. Since I can’t try just one tin to see what I think I’ll pass as I know the Rem’s work nicely.
     
  19. Feb 11, 2019 #79

    Chaco24

    Chaco24

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    I checked both places today and even filled out & emailed the form for Powder Inc., you’re right about Graf & Sons not carrying Remington #10 caps (I use the same on my 2 1858’s) just gives me the excuse to jump on the Harley-Davidson and ride out to Cabela’s in Fort Worth
     
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  20. Feb 11, 2019 #80

    Woodnbow

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    I’ve used only Swiss in 3f for a number of years but looking at the Grafs branded powder for half price has aroused my curiosity. I’m down to 3 pounds of Swiss so I’m placing an order for Grafs today...
     
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