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New guy here with a few questions

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DelawareDan

32 Cal
Joined
Jan 22, 2023
Messages
4
Reaction score
10
Location
Gumboro, Delaware
I have never owned a proper muzzleloader, in the family we used 12 ga shotguns with an insert in the breech. I however want to get into muzzleloading and only hunt with muzzleloaders as a new goal of mine. Especially due to ammunition shortages these days. I dont know which route to go between rifle or smoothbore first. I have Goex blackpowder luckily as there is a shortage but other than that I have no muzzleloader supplies. All the round balls we used to use got turned into fishing weights....
Anyone got any reccomendations for a nice starter rifle ? I know Thompson Center is out of buisness and youtube videos of those Kibler kit rifles look cool but I have never done a kit. I would like to start out hunting deer and eventually be able to hunt Turkeys, smaller game like rabbits and squirrels and maybe try my hand at waterfowl... maybe. As stated in the name I live in Delaware so the deer arent massive beasts. As for smoothbores anyone got any ideas on where to source a nice one kit or complete that can meet the criteria listed above ? Thanks to all who reply.
 
"Muzzleloading" is definately a fun sport/hobby, and can be addictive and therefore expensive. However you can keep costs down if you make much of your own gear.

"Beware the man with one gun, for he knows how to use it." That is an old saying that I think rings true. For the variety of game that you have listed, large and small, the one gun that can handle it all is, of course, a smoothbore.

.62 caliber is 20 gauge and I believe that is the most popular choice. Although there are some who prefer a larger gauge. For large game the .60 patched 320 grain lead round ball is as effective as any 20 gauge rifled slug out to 50 yards or thereabouts. Mine has accounted for several deer, and I would not hesitate to use it on wild boar and black bear.

Then, various size small shot can also be loaded for hunting small game and waterfowl. However, if you plan to do a lot of waterfowl hunting then I would go for the larger 12 gauge.

Many of the black powder gun companies have a smoothbore in their corral. You can buy a complete firearm, or you can get one "in-the-white" where everything is done, except you have to put your own finish on the gun. And, of course, there are kits. Some kits are more complicated than others, so beware if you go that route and get one that you are confident of completing yourself.

You need to decide whether you want a flintlock or a percussion. Also decide what style of firearm you want. Do you want something closely resembling a historic fusil or musket, or something that looks more like a modern shotgun?

Do an on-line search, and/or pick up a copy of Muzzleloader magazine and look at the advertisements.
You might start your search with some of these; www.logcabinshop.com www.tvmnatchez.com www.trackofthewolf.com www.dixiegunworks.com www.MuzzleloaderBuildersSupply.com
There are many more, of course, and I'm sure others will add to the list.

Best of luck with your quest.
 
Well, you will almost certainly end up with more than one gun eventually. I have roughly a dozen or so muzzleloaders in various calibers and am considering getting maybe a couple more.

Yes, T/C is out of the traditional muzzleloader business, but their guns are still out there in quantity and will be killing game long after you and I are pushing up daisies. I would certainly recommend any T/C as that is what most of mine are. But they are not the only game in town.

I don't know much about the Kiblers. They seem to have a large following and I haven't heard anything bad about them, beyond that, you will have to wait for others who are more experienced with them.

If you want strictly a hunting gun, I have a few suggestions:

The T/C New Englander and it's variants are pretty hard to beat for a hunting gun. They have an oversized trigger guard, so you can get a gloved finger into it with no problem. They have a single trigger, because for hunting, you don't really NEED a double set trigger The 1:48 twist will stabilize conicals, unmentionables and round balls well enough for hunting if you do your load development, but strictly speaking, they are not really round-ball shooters... though I have seen some that do OK with PRB. They came in .50 and .54 calibers. I don't think they made any .45 caliber New Englanders, but I am not certain... I never saw one in .45, and I've seen plenty of 'em. They also made a 12 gauge barrel for them... so you could potentially get a single gun that has a rifled barrel as well as a smoothbore.

The T/C Greyhawk is another one I would recommend. It is basically a stainless steel New Englander with a synthetic stock and stainless steel fittings. Anyone who has been around muzzleloaders for any length of time can speak to the advantages of stainless steel as far as resistance to rust. New Englander barrels will fit Greyhawk stocks, so you can still have a shotgun barrel... and/or a .50 and a .54 barrel.

If you like carbines, the T/C White Mountain Carbine came in .45 and .50 caliber. I never saw a .54, They have a short barrel, as you might expect as well as a single trigger in an oversized trigger guard. They also have a half-round barrel, which helps lighten the gun even further. The .50 caliber guns have fast twist barrels from the factory, so if you want to shoot conicals or unmentionables while hunting close cover, this is probably the gun you want.

Browning made the Jonathan Browning Mountain Rifle. It has a slow-twist barrel and came in .50 and .54 caliber, so far as I am aware. It won't shoot conicals or unmentionables very well at all, but will do neat clover-leaf targets with a PRB. They came with brass or iron fittings, and the finish is a very traditional "rust blue". Basically, this means that they put the gun in a container of water, cat urine, salt and/or other noxious substances with both ends of the barrel plugged to protect the bore. At first glance, it looks like a rusty POS, but it kinda grows on you. They are pricey though. Expect to budget as much as a thousand US dollars for one in good shape. I got mine for a few hundred several years ago, but it had problems that I am still working on... a previous owner did not know how to clean muzzleloaders.

Sights on the JBMR are full buckhorn rear and flat blade front. Elevation can be adjusted with a screw, windage by tapping either the front or rear sights left or right in the dovetail. They have a single-set trigger in an oversized triggerguard, and to set the trigger, you push it forward until it clicks into place, then you have a light firing trigger. Trigger pull weight is adjustable by external screw, but once you get it set where you want it, a drop of fingernail polish is not a bad idea to lock the screw into place.

These guns are kind of heavy and clunky. Not the sort of gun you would want to carry up the mountainside if it could be avoided.

A gun that I have very limited experience with is the Pedersoli Kodiak rifle. This is a double-rifle reminiscent of early African hunting rifles. They are still in production and come in .50, .54, and .58 calibers. The MK III version can also be ordered with a 12 gauge barrel set along with your rifled barrels. Check out Pedersoli's sight for specifications.

My only experience with one of these was a used gun that came into the store I worked in once upon a time. Regulation was less than satisfactory with round balls in that .50 caliber, but looking at modern specifications, that is not surprising as they have fast-twist rifling for conicals. The .58 has a compromise twist and they recommend a tight PRB in it, if memory serves.

The advantages of both a second shot as well as a second or third or forth set of barrels cannot be overstated, but if you don''t have a "gun bearer", then you had better be in good physical condition. These things are HEAVY.

For stand hunting, a Kodiak should be more than adequate and I am considering the possibility of acquiring one myself. I only need to come up with a reason to justify it somehow.

Now, take this, and all other advice you may be offered here with a grain of salt, but hopefully, you will have something to think about now.

Good Luck!
 
Anyone got any recommendations for a nice starter rifle ?
Start with a rifle and don't hesitate searching the second hand/used market for a first gun.
A .45, .50, .54 will all harvest Deer size game and smaller.
Used is easier on the wallet for the learning curve and leaves you money for all the gadgets that go with the hobby.
You can always move on to new rifle or a kit.
Any issues that may occur with a used guns function are usually easily addressed with simple hand tools and minimal experience.
(the vast knowledge base of members here can help with anything)
The key is a bright shiny bore, stay away from anything that looks rusty. (Most folks selling online will show pictures of the bore.)
T/C, Investarms, Lyman*, Cabelas* (* both made by Investarms) CVA and Traditions (Spanish made) all can be and are reliable shooters.
One caveat is shy away from the Spanish made single trigger guns, they use a cheaper un-bridled lock, T/C and Investarms uses the same lock with their single and double trigger models.
Search local gun shops, pawn shops and gun shows and handle as many different brands as you can, these replica guns have a different fit and feel even with-in brand,, a T/C Hawken fit's the shoulder different (drop and comb) then the T/C Renegade.
Slow the roll, if you get a rifle by the time the snow melts you'll have plenty of time to prepare for hunting season. Do some searching/researching and check back here often, the forums archives are a freaking encyclopedia!
 
OP, If I were to have only one rifle and wanted to deer hunt and small game hunt, it would be in a .45 caliber. If I wanted to shoot round ball then I would prefer it to have a slower twist than a 1:48 IF it were a Thompson Center. My next rifle will most likely be a Kentucky or Tennessee style in .45 caliber with a slow twist. It will kill deer, rabbits, squirrels, etc. A good do-all caliber with round ball.

You might get lucky and find a .45 that will shoot round balls and conical fairly accurately. That would up your game for deer at moderate distances. If you be patient, you will most likely find what you are looking for.

Good luck.
 
I've bought online, person-to-person,auctions, gunshows, box stores, and pawnshops. It takes a while actually handling specific firearms to realize differences. Part of the fun, to me, is actually examining them in person so I really know what variations offered/written about/spoken of consist of.

On-line has opened vastly more opportunities for purchase. But, also more opportunities to get burned are on the web. Were I starting out again, I'd go percussion for a first muzzleloader with an eye to its primary intended use. Only accurate rifles are interesting. Parts for out-of production guns can be hard to find, some nearly non-existant. Don't buy junk nor blow your wad on some expensive gun you wouldn't want the dog to knock over. He will and you'll manure your pants.
 
I've bought online, person-to-person,auctions, gunshows, box stores, and pawnshops. It takes a while actually handling specific firearms to realize differences. Part of the fun, to me, is actually examining them in person so I really know what variations offered/written about/spoken of consist of.

On-line has opened vastly more opportunities for purchase. But, also more opportunities to get burned are on the web. Were I starting out again, I'd go percussion for a first muzzleloader with an eye to its primary intended use. Only accurate rifles are interesting. Parts for out-of production guns can be hard to find, some nearly non-existant. Don't buy junk nor blow your wad on some expensive gun you wouldn't want the dog to knock over. He will and you'll manure your pants.
Most of my guns are used, and more than a few of them have dings, dents and some rust. One has a ringed barrel. A few minutes ago, I shot a water-filled soda can at 75 yards with that particular gun... though it did take me two attempts. All of them launch projectiles to my satisfaction and though I really don't NEED another one, I'm always looking.
 
I agree with others on the one rifle choice being a smoothbore anywhere in the .59-.69 range. And because of the difficulty finding caps now, I would consider a flintlock. There is also the smooth rifle, which offers smoothbore capability with rifle characteristics. But for shooting any birds on the wing, a traditional smoothbore is a better idea.
 
Thanks for all the replies so far. I would be buying a Flintlock as I dont like caps and I do like the sparks and smoke. Also I like that look of the 18th Century "Long" guns with barrels of 40"+. I like the look of long muskets and long rifles especially the ones militias carried in the late 18th Century. Still dont know If I should get a rifle or smoothbore first though Im still trying to figure that out. Thanks to all who replied the information in the thread is great.
 
Thanks for all the replies so far. I would be buying a Flintlock as I dont like caps and I do like the sparks and smoke. Also I like that look of the 18th Century "Long" guns with barrels of 40"+. I like the look of long muskets and long rifles especially the ones militias carried in the late 18th Century. Still dont know If I should get a rifle or smoothbore first though Im still trying to figure that out. Thanks to all who replied the information in the thread is great.
Buy a smoothbore and hunt everything ! LOL ... I love my trade guns . Have fun with whatever you buy . :)
 
Thanks for all the replies so far. I would be buying a Flintlock as I dont like caps and I do like the sparks and smoke. Also I like that look of the 18th Century "Long" guns with barrels of 40"+. I like the look of long muskets and long rifles especially the ones militias carried in the late 18th Century. Still dont know If I should get a rifle or smoothbore first though Im still trying to figure that out. Thanks to all who replied the information in the thread is great.
 

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Overall shooting and hunting INMHO .54 cal 1x48 twist barrel.

TC Renegade(several for sale In the classified here) give you the classic look with out all the shiny stuff.
Wood stock, double set triggers.
I deer hunt with a 54 with a PRB 100 grains 3fff. Drops a mule dear where it stands.
A
 
I have never owned a proper muzzleloader, in the family we used 12 ga shotguns with an insert in the breech. I however want to get into muzzleloading and only hunt with muzzleloaders as a new goal of mine. Especially due to ammunition shortages these days. I dont know which route to go between rifle or smoothbore first. I have Goex blackpowder luckily as there is a shortage but other than that I have no muzzleloader supplies. All the round balls we used to use got turned into fishing weights....
Anyone got any reccomendations for a nice starter rifle ? I know Thompson Center is out of buisness and youtube videos of those Kibler kit rifles look cool but I have never done a kit. I would like to start out hunting deer and eventually be able to hunt Turkeys, smaller game like rabbits and squirrels and maybe try my hand at waterfowl... maybe. As stated in the name I live in Delaware so the deer arent massive beasts. As for smoothbores anyone got any ideas on where to source a nice one kit or complete that can meet the criteria listed above ? Thanks to all who reply.
BE WARNED this hobby/sport is more addictive that cocaine and twice as expensive.
But great fun.
Respectfully
Bunk (known as a notorious addict)
 
Welcome to the board, Dan !

For hunting in Delaware, I would be very comfortable with a smoothbore to take any game found there.

The steel shot mandated for waterfowl shouldn't be an issue in it's straight (no choke) bore

I took several deer with a T/C 56SB Renegade (patched .535" round ball) and small game with a cutdown 28ga shot cup ( #6 birdshot) in the same gun.

For both uses, where I hunt, the ranges were as close as an archery hunt.
 
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If you decide to go the caplock route you might look for a used or NOS Thompson Center New Englander 12 GA to scratch your smoothbore itch then if to decide a rifle is in order add a .54 or .50 New Englander, used or NOS, barrel later. The 12 GA might be a bit tough to find but they are out there. The .50 is probably the most common New Englander you'll find for sale. I've got this combo in 12 GA with a .50 barrel, neat set up.
 
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