I'm pretty new to black powder. I bought a old pistol stamped on the barrel Hawes firearms Co, Los Angeles Calif on one side and 44 cal. navy model made in Italy on the other..there is also a PN on one side and a xxv1 on the brass. My research tells me this is a 1970 pietta 44 caliber made in Italy and assembled in LA. P lease tell me if I'm wrong, that may be my problem. Anyhow, the cylinder has some doesn't always turn and you can see it's wore out so I ordered a new one from cabelas.it came in today and I excitedly opened it and disambelded my gun and started putting it back together to find out that it wouldn't go nCk together. The cylinder they sent me is approximately 3/16 inch longer. The box it's in is marked right. I'm not sure what to do next. Anyone k ow what is the deal here.
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New cylinder wont fit in pietta
- Thread starter Pphillips
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What makes you think it's Pietta? You say the cylinder is worn out, how can you tell?
Some photos would help. Hawes was an importer and my first C&B revolver was a Hawes. As far as I know the guns came already assembled from the manufacturer. The parts you buy from Cabela's (great prices) are for post 2000 Piettas and won't fit the earlier Piettas (at least the cylinder-different size locking notches) and the other parts will require fitting.
I have no idea who made my Hawes and it's been gone for 48 years so I can't check but your gun could have been made by almost any of the manufacturers in business from the late 60s through the 80s many of which are long gone. If the arbor hole in the cylinder matches the revolver's arbor and the locking notches are in the correct position you can have the cylinder shortened and if there's no match send it back.
If the cylinder won't turn all the time it could be that the ratchet teeth on the back are worn along with the hand itself or it could be as simple as a weak or broken hand spring which is very common. Other issues could involve wear on the action parts so that it doesn't reset or unlock at the right time.
I have no idea who made my Hawes and it's been gone for 48 years so I can't check but your gun could have been made by almost any of the manufacturers in business from the late 60s through the 80s many of which are long gone. If the arbor hole in the cylinder matches the revolver's arbor and the locking notches are in the correct position you can have the cylinder shortened and if there's no match send it back.
If the cylinder won't turn all the time it could be that the ratchet teeth on the back are worn along with the hand itself or it could be as simple as a weak or broken hand spring which is very common. Other issues could involve wear on the action parts so that it doesn't reset or unlock at the right time.
Pphillips, your Armi San Paolo, would love to see some photos of it if you have time to post a few? That would be real nice. Thanks
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Bottom line...Unless you already know how to repair and find parts for pre- 2000 Pietta or Uberti pistols it`s best to avoid them if you expect to use them. Most parts will require fitting...c
Well I would but I'd have to put it back together. I got tired of thr cylinder not always turning so I took it completely apart. And I found the problem. The gun was made in 1970 so it has several parts with excessive wear on them. But it looks just like a 51 pietta 44 caliber navy to me. I have just found a hand engraved GDG hid under the ram. That makes it built by Armi Jan Paolo in Italy and imported and assembled and sold here. I don't know if I'll be able to find original parts that I can afford. I hear they are pricey and I'm on a fixed income. I know I can get a similar new gun for about 250 but this is my first black powder and I've gotten attached to it. If somehow I can find a way to figure a cheap way to make it work then I plan to. Right now in looking at the parts from a army of same area. In pictures they look close and im wondering if I can make them work.
Pphillips,
Hi. Thank you. Maybe you could snap a few shots of the barrel and frame markings and also shots of the parts that you believe to be worn out? Lot of knowledgeable folks here on TMF that would love to try and help you out. Personally, I would not not be in a hurry to sell it but that's just me. There may be hope for that ASP just yet.
Ok ill give it a try. I bought a cylinder for a 51 pietta 44 navy, it fits in the gun and matches everywhere but overall length so I'll have it cut down. Now for the real problem there is wear on the hand/pawl, bolt stop and trigger. I have sent pictures of these. I compared them to pictures of a 1960 colt 44 army and to me they look the same but what do I know. I pulled up pictures on my computer and made them the same size as my parts and laid my parts on top of the screen and I swear they looked identical. Any ideas on this. There are pictures of the army parts on ebay. I looked at pictures of the parts from a navy gun and they didn't even look anything like mine at all. Not even close.
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That is definitely an Armi San Palo, later Euroarms and Euroarms of America. The internal parts from an 1860 Army, 1861 Navy and 1851 Navy are the same within manufacturers. Each manufacturer makes the parts to their specs dimensionally but they all look the same in a photo. It's possible you can use parts from Uberti or Pietta hand fitting them as you go if your experience level will allow that and assuming you have the parts on hand in front of you where you can pick and choose the closest. You'll be hard pressed to find any parts for an ASP/Euroarms. I don't know about the Navies but I have an ASP 58 Remington that a friend fitted a new Pietta hammer to, a fair amount of work. I have a Euroarms Remington that needs a hammer and I have a new Pietta hammer and internal parts (all from Cabella's) and I can see how I can make this work including swapping the trigger, trigger/bolt spring and hand If I wish but it'll take some work with a file and stone and the hammer needs to be narrowed on a belt sander to fit the frame. Good luck with your project.
Ky_BP50cal
32 Cal
EMF company has a good price on a Pietta parts kit 35.00 or you can buy separate parts
Pphillips, So what parts do you feel are excessively worn? Hammer, Cam, hand, bolt springs? You mentioned the original cylinder does not turn? Maybe some photos of the parts you feel are worn? That would be helpful to see those parts. When you have time that is. Thanks
Well I ordered a new hand, spring, stop and trigger. The new cylinder I have will work its just a little long. I know someone who can cut it down in a machine. It will be my winter project. I've already gotten to where I can take it apart to bare frame and put it back together in 17 minutes.
Once I get this one finished I'm wanting to get a second gun. I'm a firm believer in bigger is better. What do you think about the dragoon 3. I understand they are pretty heavy but have a lot of punch. I can't afford a new one right now but what do you think a good used one will cost.
Funny you would ask that. I just bought my first one last night! LOL. Bought a Model 3 Armi San Marco 1989 vintage New Old Stock never fired. I bought it on GunBroker and they can be a little high pricewise. Midway has Uberti brand listed at $419 I believe but currently out of stock. DixieGunWorks has the Military version of the 3d Model Dragoon for $480. I have a Walker and it weighs a tad more than the Dragoon but not a substantial difference in weight. There is a used Replica Arms Dragoon on Gun Broker right now and I think the bidding is at $330 just to give you an idea. Replica Arms Colt 1848 Dragoon .44 Perc. Rare Early 1968 mfg Uberti Ex! NR - Black Powder Pistols & Muzzleloader Pistols at GunBroker.com : 918598436
and they have another used one but it's a Model 1 Dragoon for bid or buy it now Uberti Colt 1st Model Dragoon - Black Powder Pistols & Muzzleloader Pistols at GunBroker.com : 919554112. Hope this helps.
Well Hawkey2 you were right about the parts for my old gum. I worked for 2 days with dremel, ginger and files and I couldn't make them all fit. But I now have a new trigger and spring and bolt spring oh and main spring. The screw kit worked all but 2. Couldn't get the hammer to work and couldn't get the stop to work but I think I did pretty good for a greenhorn lol. She has a nice firm hammer and trigger pull now. And best off aii the cylinder has stoped skipping now. I still have to get my new cylinder back from machine shop after they cut it down. I'll have to do some luring on it. Never done any of that, anybody got any good tips on that. Haven't got to shoot her yet but going soon. I'll let yall know how it goes. Oh after reading yalls paper I've switched from lard to wads. I like them so far but I have to use less powder now. The first load with my normal amount and my ball was sticking out of cylinder. Remember my cylinder is 3/16s shorter than it's look alike pietta 51 navy.
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