Negativity towards Traditions guns

[azmntman]

seams nobody likes the inexpensive brand's of muzzleloaders, because they don't put them into the same hole or shoot minute of angle, yes that is a big word that most of us will get, well I say so what? just be thankful that you are in a country that you can follow your hobby of shooting black powder guns and making Smoak and have fun with friends and without any body saying, oh I see that you have one of those-TRADITIONS, CVA,S, MIROUKO,S, JUKAR, ETC. why is that? don't tell me that is the nature of the beast. so lets see how many bring out into the woods there $2000+ $ guns and beat the brush to get a rabbit to run out with it?

Many many old CVA and traditions etc will put em in the same hole. It really is the shooter. Please dont tell me its my gun (it used to shoot 2" group EVERY time out). Thought it was me. So maybe I do need a second mortgage and to shell out 10-20K and I can get back on target?

Nah, I'll change whisky and see what happens first.

 

[Tanglefoot]

Folks, I've been doing this thing of ours for a considerable length of time now, and I am a traditionalist. That said, what it means to me is that I prefer traditional gear and traditional clothing and traditional methods. There's a clear difference - to me - between a preference and a requirement.
This whole discussion reminds me of the fussing that went on during the Bicentennial. It seems that in some circles, being a member of the DAR or the SAR packed a lot of snob appeal. I was working on a job in New England at the time and there was pressure to join one of them if you were qualified. My mother joined the SAR because one of the other old hens in her circle had been accepted and wouldn't quit bragging about it. My father refused to consider it, on the grounds that he didn't see the point of paying a stranger money to acknowledge what he already knew was fact. I agreed with Dad. Still do.
I belong to at least one Living History organization that requires authenticity and several who say, "Period of 1840 or earlier, but if you're starting out or just interested, come join us and welcome. We'll help you." My first muzzleloaders were originals. That's all that was available. Then I discovered a gent in Tennessee who was selling new-made reproductions of types of original muzzleloading guns plus tools and supplies and a bunch of original parts out of his family's garage. He had a catalog that was at least a quarter-inch thick! Name was Kirkland. Since then (That was in the 60's ... Yes, dangit! The NINETEEN sixties!) I've had and shot some of those DGW guns, and some CVA's, and one of Jake Thompson and Sam Center's rifles, and muzzleloaders from TVA and Western Arms and so on. One of my favorite rifles is my very early Green River Rifle Works Leman Indian Trade Rifle, which a buddy used to call my "Mud Gun" because he said it's as plain as a mud fence.
It has out-shot any number of much fancier, much more pricey rifles, including high-end customs. I also have a long barreled Pennsyltucky flintlock, which is a copy of a pre-Revolutionary War rifle with stock carvings and silver inlays. Love that one too. Her name's "Hannah" and she has one very common characteristic with the Leman --- she shoots center! I won't give house room to a rifle that doesn't.
I also don't waste my time worrying about snobs. If I did, I wouldn't have time for anything else and life's too short. The woods is full of those varmints, and most of `em don't seem to me to have very dang much to be snobby about .... but that's just me. So, here's my humble suggestion: Quit letting them ruffle your fur. Ignore them. Works for me.
There floats my stick,
Tanglefoot

 

[Marinekayak]

Well said! I read the posts here and there is a lot of good information but here and on most ranges I go to there are always those “experts” that know everything that want to tell you everything youre doing is wrong with out knowing whats right. Not to go into my background but I’ve been a competitive shooter since I was 8. Over 45 years of shooting and hunting. I’ve competed internationally representing the US. I am also one of those fortunate few who managed to turn my shooting into a career. Im not a pro shooter but shooting and instructing are part of my job. I welcome all and any advice but I am here to learn about muzzleloaders and history not shooting in general. I dont need negative posts or negative feedback. One thing I’ve learned about shooting is I will always have more to learn. Muzzleloading is my way of doing what I love, shooting, without out the pressures of work. Black powder and rimfire take me back to my youth learning sight picture trigger control and follow through.
on a side note. I love Traditions. I used to visit the company regulary in CT when i lived there. I find them to be accurate and functional albiet with their quirks. My mountain rifle is just as well made and accurate as my pedersoli. The people working there shoot and hunt with Traditions products and strive to make them better. I mentioned last time i was there that i loved my mountain rifle and was sad to see it discontinued. They knew people liked it and worked with their suppliers to bring it back. And now it is.
shooting is like fly fishing. Theres always going to be that guy with the crazy expensive bamboo fly fly rod that cant catch a fish while the kid with the cheap bass pro rod who made the effort to learn catches the fish. Shooting is about effort not buying the most expensive rifle you can. When you can outshoot a less expensive rifle then you have a custom one built because now you have a knowledge base to build on.
sorry for the rant. Like on the trap field. If i see the guy next too me has a perazzi i just shrug. But if they have an old well worn model 12 then I start to worry because i know he knows how to use it.

 

[fishmanbeene]

My Traditions may not be historically correct, but It shoots great. Also, my family made guns in Tennessee in the 1700's they used what they had, no two were identical, and very few are still in existence. So just how do we know that someone didn't build one like the current reproductions?

 

[hunter thompson]

This is an informative and well articulated warning about Traditions that I didn't know. Thank you.

LOVE THEM and are affordable and a great gun and you can rebarrel them.ALWAYS room for improvement..i buy used T/C half stocks ..upgrade them. The very first cva,s had sharon bbls and said made in the usa...i would love to fnd one...very sought after.

 

[smo]

I'm snobish' towards guns that kill deer....

Sorry, The TC has already Sold!

 

[tomm9903]

Don't sweat it. Judging by some of the responses you have brought back some great memories for some of us. I know you have for me.

So I have been around black powder guns for a long time about 50 years. Back when I got my first as a kid, it was a CVA, what would be Traditions today, Back then there was not a lot of choice and there was no "internet" full of, ...ideas, and as a kid I was tickled with my CVA and nobody could tell me that it "wasn't good enough".

To be a snob back then you had to have a real original gun.

I think we all in some way owe a debt of gratitude for the contributions CVA, and Traditions, and others like them have made to the hobby. They have brought a lot of people into it, and I hate to think what it would be like now without companies like them. They have brought a lot of enjoyment to a lot of people.

Amen to that!

 

[Zonie]

My Traditions may not be historically correct, but It shoots great. Also, my family made guns in Tennessee in the 1700's they used what they had, no two were identical, and very few are still in existence. So just how do we know that someone didn't build one like the current reproductions?

IMO, the Traditions half stock rifles and the older CVA halfstock as well as the most of the side hammer TC's are not that far from being accurate representations of original guns.
A lot of people shake their heads and say things like, "It only has one barrel wedge. It's not a traditional gun."
To that I say, there were a lot of half stock rifles that were made in California and other places that only had one barrel wedge.

While we're looking at those pictures, notice the trigger guards. They look a lot like the ones used on many CVA, Traditions and TC rifles to me.

 

[Crow-Feather]

I'm snobish' towards guns that kill deer....

Sorry, The TC has already Sold!

In the top picture, I don't see no blood. One of two things must have happened. !. Deer saw that rifle, knew he was gonna die, and dropped over dead from shock. or 2. You clobbered him over the head with that long purty club laying on him. Either way, outstanding deer.

 

[Sidney Smith]

Only time I've got a real problem is when these plastic stocked, non sidelock guys want to infiltrate our Flintlocks only season. Then Ive got a problem.

I dont fault somebody who shoots a Traditions gun. If that's all you can afford then so be it. My grandson has the one we built. He likes it, that's good enough for me. Someday he might want a more expensive arm. That too works.

 

[Bob McBride]

In the top picture, I don't see no blood. One of two things must have happened. !. Deer saw that rifle, knew he was gonna die, and dropped over dead from shock. or 2. You clobbered him over the head with that long purty club laying on him. Either way, outstanding deer.

Oh, they queue up smartly for the honor of being smacked down by Ol Smo over there.....

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

I started off about 5 years ago with a Lyman’s Great Plains rifle.

I didn’t know at the time if I’d really be in to muzzleloading rifles and didn’t have the budget to buy a custom.

Well, I was hooked. I learned as much as I could about these rifles and read stories and books galore. Branched off into original accesories like horns and bags. The more I learned and saw about these original and modern custom builds of them, the more I wanted one as close to the originals as I could. I was in deep. I now how this:

The Lyman is long gone, and I don’t miss it. The quality and certain features were not impressive. I haven’t regretted for a moment my decision to save up over a long period of time and get a beautiful and properly made gun that truly embodies the tradition of the American muzzleloading rifle. Now, the factory and most imported guns do nothing for me. I am a purest at heart and don’t use any modern wacky lubricants, no funky accesories that never were during the period, and I’ve found it a wholly rewarding experience. It’s just “my bag” as it were. As much as I enjoy shooting, I enjoy researching and reading just as much, and in trying to duplicate “the old ways“ the mass produced factory guns fall far short of what I PERSONALLY am trying to achieve with this hobby.

I don’t know if that makes me an elitist or not, but I won’t be shamed for it. I will not and never have put down any other person or there traditional rifle (plastic notwithstanding) because I know dam well it can be hard out there and believe you me, I had to scrape and save for ever dime to buy my rifle and kit and work for ever bit of it just as hard as anyone with my blue color construction job.

We all have our own goals and what floats our boats and nobody has the right to disparage. We’re all making smoke and having fun and as long as the old ways are respected we can all get along and have fun.

Unless your gun has a plastic stock.

 

[Jaegermeister]

Some people love their 1995 Dodge Neons, some love their 2017 Dodge Challenger Scatpaks. Cheap non historic looking looking but accurate rifles please many people. Some folks prefer a bit more expensive accurate historically more correct pieces of firearm art. The trick is to be happy with what you have. I’m not being philosophical but hell’s bells. This situation isn’t rocket science be it cars, boats, airplanes or motor homes. Some are happy as a pig in manure with a cheap made functional product while others enjoy spending more for a more higher end product they can afford. For Pete’s sake!

 

[Coot]

Is a plastic stock ok if wearing naugahide buckskins?

 

[fleener]

Something wrong with all of you. 8 pages latter and it is still being talked about. I think I need to go see a shrink.

I was thinking about a new pickup, but Bob, has me second guessing that now. Might have to drive the beater and start chewing again. I went downstairs and separated my lymans from my nicer guns, cant have them commingling. You know how snobbish the English guns can be (no offence to the Brits), had to move the Irish gun away as well, if you are going to do it, do it right.

SMO has me wanting to go shoot a deer. The one guy has me afraid of getting too close to the computer screen, I dont want to be slapped or called names.

Zonie must be on Prozac.

I think I need a whiskey.

Fleener

 

[LawrenceA]

Is a plastic stock ok if wearing naugahide buckskins?

I cant see this as a problem for anyone as long as it was made from genuine nauga's and not vellum or something.

 

[2 shots]

i have not read every entry but if it has not yet been said ALL GUNS MATTER

 

[smo]

I shot him as he got closer too the truck head on at 50 yards....

Luckily he only ran about 15 yards... towards the truck!

That 15 yards was more like a stumble rather than a run....

GW's removed glands testing for CWD..... He was negative.

 

[smo]

In the top picture, I don't see no blood. One of two things must have happened. !. Deer saw that rifle, knew he was gonna die, and dropped over dead from shock. or 2. You clobbered him over the head with that long purty club laying on him. Either way, outstanding deer.

Oh, they queue up smartly for the honor of being smacked down by Ol Smo over there.....

Ya' gotta' hold your mouth just right ta' get em' in close!

 

[Zonie]

Well, I think when we've come down to showing dead deer and people feeding turkeys by hand, we've obviously said about all that needs to be said about negative comments about Traditions guns so, I'm going to close this thread.