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Joined
Nov 18, 2022
Messages
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Location
Maryland
I am going to try and be straightforward here. I have never owned a muzzleloader nor have I ever fired one. I know how to load one from seeing movies and videos. I want to give muzzleloaders a shot (no pun intended) as I always have been a bow hunter and the only firearms I own arent legal to hunt deer in my area. With all that said I have decides that I want to start out with a Flintlock. I have heard the caps are hard to come by and Flintlocks dont need caps. Also I like the sparks and flame a flintlock makes. Now I have a few questions to ask. Those two questions are Caliber and if I should buy a brand made rifle or custom made rifle. I dont know what is overkill for deer. I do know in my state the legal limit is .40 caliber with 60 grains of powder. I remember seeing Thompson Center in a bunch of hunting and outdoor magazines growing up so that brand comes to mind. Thanks to anyone who can lend a hand, apologies if this post seems erratic or crazy.
 
Greetings Grant, from Damascus, Maryland.

So there are two schools of thought on starting out with a muzzleloader and starting with flint…

First school of thought…, get started right away with a “factory” made rifle. You can go used in good to excellent condition, or you can go brand new. Advantages : You normally spend a lot less than a built rifle. You often can get started with it right away, and deer season starts next week where we are. Since it’s a factory gun whether new or used, you won’t feel so bad if you get a ding on the stock. Disadvantages: What’s available can be limited, might not be in stock, and ties up your money in that rifle if you wanted to later get something much more historic or authentic in appearance. I’d say the choices are the Cabela’s Blue Ridge Hunter which is made by Pedersoli from their Frontier Rifle, the Pedersoli Hawken, the Lyman half-stocked rifles such as the Great Plains Rifle, Trade Rifle, and Deerstalker, and used versions of those, and a used Thompson Center flintlock.

Some of the above are available “new” in a kit form, from some place like Dixie Gun Works. All of the fitting of the metal to the wood is done so all you’re doing is sanding the wood , staining, and sealing it. If all you are looking for is something for hunting, this is a pretty good option.

Second school of thought, “buy once ; cry once” rifle. You have a rifle built for you or you buy one already hand built. These tend from what I’ve seen to be at least 50% higher in cost than a new factory rifle, but folks will point out that spending money on the factory rifle only slows you down from buying the rifle that you “really want”. The hand built rifles tend to be much more historic and authentic than the factory rifles.

BOTH styles of rifles are known to be accurate and to slay deer without problems.

I have found with folks starting out that a larger lock tends to be easier to work with. Most buy not all of the factory offered rifles have what I consider a large lock.

Caliber…, OK well the state allows .40 but I’d shy away from that on your first flintlock. There are some special consideration for the .40.

Is recoil a factor, and do you think you might want to go for something like Elk one day with this rifle?

.45 patched round ball will take deer no worries, and is very easy on recoil. .50 and .54 are found more often as some states require a larger caliber than .45 for deer. .54 is often the smallest recommended for elk. All three …, .45, .50, and .54 can use conical bullets to give you more impact on the deer, but that increases kick. You have to also be careful as often .54 rifles, even factory made, are made with barrels meant only for patched round ball. I’ve never had a problem taking deer with a .54 patched round ball, and a lot of guys on this forum do it every year with the .45 patched round ball.

OH and some store clerks will tell you that a conical bullet gives you a faster reload than a patched round ball, which is true, but not fast enough for you to get a second shot on a wounded deer before it moves out of your eyesight.

I hope this helps you decide. Good Luck



LD
 
45 caliber is what our state requires, thats why I build a 45. Would have been a 40.
45 knocks them down with ease. So I dont see why a 40 would not work well.

Since 1992 when I retired from the Army, I have owned two rifles. Both flintlocks.
The first was a Pedersoli 1803 Harpers Ferry. Beautiful firearm. its history was replacing parts every year. When the girl friend left in 1999, she asked if she could have it, she could never afford one. I said good radiance.
In 2005 I built a Virginia Sheetz rifle. The only mishap was when I browned the lock, one of the screws stuck in the plate and I had to send it back to Chambers for repair. Like that was the rifles fault, not.
Been shooting it every year with nay a problem ever since.

The Harpers Ferry cost a little under half of what I paid for the parts for the Sheetz. Each part was worth every penny.
 
Greetings Grant, from Damascus, Maryland.

So there are two schools of thought on starting out with a muzzleloader and starting with flint…

First school of thought…, get started right away with a “factory” made rifle. You can go used in good to excellent condition, or you can go brand new. Advantages : You normally spend a lot less than a built rifle. You often can get started with it right away, and deer season starts next week where we are. Since it’s a factory gun whether new or used, you won’t feel so bad if you get a ding on the stock. Disadvantages: What’s available can be limited, might not be in stock, and ties up your money in that rifle if you wanted to later get something much more historic or authentic in appearance. I’d say the choices are the Cabela’s Blue Ridge Hunter which is made by Pedersoli from their Frontier Rifle, the Pedersoli Hawken, the Lyman half-stocked rifles such as the Great Plains Rifle, Trade Rifle, and Deerstalker, and used versions of those, and a used Thompson Center flintlock.

Some of the above are available “new” in a kit form, from some place like Dixie Gun Works. All of the fitting of the metal to the wood is done so all you’re doing is sanding the wood , staining, and sealing it. If all you are looking for is something for hunting, this is a pretty good option.

Second school of thought, “buy once ; cry once” rifle. You have a rifle built for you or you buy one already hand built. These tend from what I’ve seen to be at least 50% higher in cost than a new factory rifle, but folks will point out that spending money on the factory rifle only slows you down from buying the rifle that you “really want”. The hand built rifles tend to be much more historic and authentic than the factory rifles.

BOTH styles of rifles are known to be accurate and to slay deer without problems.

I have found with folks starting out that a larger lock tends to be easier to work with. Most buy not all of the factory offered rifles have what I consider a large lock.

Caliber…, OK well the state allows .40 but I’d shy away from that on your first flintlock. There are some special consideration for the .40.

Is recoil a factor, and do you think you might want to go for something like Elk one day with this rifle?

.45 patched round ball will take deer no worries, and is very easy on recoil. .50 and .54 are found more often as some states require a larger caliber than .45 for deer. .54 is often the smallest recommended for elk. All three …, .45, .50, and .54 can use conical bullets to give you more impact on the deer, but that increases kick. You have to also be careful as often .54 rifles, even factory made, are made with barrels meant only for patched round ball. I’ve never had a problem taking deer with a .54 patched round ball, and a lot of guys on this forum do it every year with the .45 patched round ball.

OH and some store clerks will tell you that a conical bullet gives you a faster reload than a patched round ball, which is true, but not fast enough for you to get a second shot on a wounded deer before it moves out of your eyesight.

I hope this helps you decide. Good Luck



LD
Yea a local shop has 6 Thompson Center Flintlocks. One is a .50 caliber Renegade, 2 are .50 caliber Hawken, one is a .36 caliber unknown model, one is a .45 caliber Hawken, one is a .54 caliber Hawken and the last is a .50 caliber Pennsylvania Hunter. The renegade is $400, all the .50 Hawkens are all $600, the .45 Hawken is $400, the .36 is $350 and the Pennsylvania Hunter is $500. When I went online snooping around at people's custom rifles they are between $1200 and $1700. So this brought me to the thought of do I spend $500~$600 now or $1200 now versus a total of say $2400 later. Out of these Thompson Centers which are the best in terms of value, rarity and something you dont see everyday ? I figured if I buy one it should be something you dont see often so as to have an assurance of no regrets lol... Thanks for the quick reply.
 
So the .45 Hawken isn't seen very often. The .36 is a Cherokee or a Seneca if it's a Thompson Center, though probably a Cherokee. The Cherokee or Seneca is even more rare, but..., you can't hunt deer with it in .36. All of the above tend to retain value.

IF the Renegade has a good bore, it should have the thickest barrel, which gives you a pretty good chance if the bore is messed up of having it bored smooth into a 28 gauge shotgun which will shoot round ball likely out to 50 yards, or having it rebored and re-rifled to .54 caliber. It's nice because it's also the least expensive.

The Pennsylvania hunter was made for that state, because when it was made that state had restrictions including "round ball only" and that rifle should only work well with a round ball.

If it was me, I'd be looking at the bore of the Renegade, and the bore of the Pennsylvania hunter. One of the easiest ways is to get a "bobber light" used to illuminate a fishing bobber at night, and drop that down the bore and look. Another way is to take a piece of foil, shiny side out, and cover the base of a 9mm or .38 special cartridge, and drop that down the bore, allowing light from a hand held flashlight to reflect back and let you see the bore. The foolproof way is to buy an endoscopic camera for your cellphone and get an inch by inch closeup of the entire barrel interior. BEFORE you take a look, check to be sure that they aren't loaded. Many's the time some store had a used muzzleloader and didn't check and it was still loaded from the previous owner.

I'd probably buy one of those two rifles either Renegade or PA hunter, and in truth..., I'd probably buy the .36 as well, and have a deer rifle and a squirrel rifle. Can't hurt to have a good squirrel rifle.

BUT who knows, maybe those two have rusted out bores, or maybe all of them have that problem.

LD
 
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LD has covered all the bases. with most TC's in the flint configuration make sure it sparks well. some need some stroking to get reliable. that said they are marvelous guns for a decent price point. i have a couple that will cause you to look for a barf bag after examining the bore. Literally look like a heavily used sewer pipe. but they will stack one great plains bullet one on top of the other. if i let someone else shoot them. they make me a better shot than i am.
the draw back is they are harder to clean and load.
the nice thing about TC's is there is still plenty of parts for them if needed.
best of luck.
ps. i am queer for the .54's , but shoot the .45's better.
 
Dang I bet thats a heavy barrel

I have one and it's not at all heavy. It is a TC Hawken he is talking about with undoubtedly a 15/16" barrel so it's not going to weigh in like a close Hawken replica.

The tc hawken is probably your best bet. 600 seems high on those 50's but 400 seems ok.on the 45. With the extra 200 you can eventually pick up another barrel in 50.

Condition, especially of the bores, is your primary concern when looking at any used ml.
 
I have the Penn Hunter, Renegade, and a Hawken so I can give you my opinion for what it's worth.

In general I'd say Thompson Center makes a quality firearm and any of those would serve you well. They can be made to spark and fire just as reliably as anything else and I have never had a problem with any of mine.

Pricing, I've been watching this site and gun broker as I'm considering sell some of mine to fund another Kibler and none of these are out of line with what you can expect to pay. I agree with what longcruise said. $400 for the Hawken seems like to good of a deal and $600 is getting on the high end, maybe it's a condition issue?

From there it's just going to be personal preference.
Single vs set triggers, iron vs brass, 1 inch vs 15/16th barrel and their respective lengths, flat butt plate vs curved. The 50 Renegade or 45 Hawken is what I would be looking at.

Good luck, shooting flint locks is an addiction. You might end up with all of them by the time you're done.
 
How far are you from Dixon Muzzleloading shop in Kempton Pa.? They have a large variety of muzzleloaders that you can put your hands on and get a feel for the gun you might want. All calibers custom and factory.
Go early in the day don't take the kids or wife unless she control the pocketbook. You don't want to be rushed to decide. That place is like the toy box of muzzleloaders.
 
I like the .45 and have hunted mostly with it. Any caliber from .45 & up will do very well. I've owned only two factory flintlock rifles; one was American made and the other was an import. Imported locks range from excellent to garbage; my American longrifle was excellent and the import was garbage.
 
Best thing I ever did when I started shooting is to go to a local club shoot. Many clubs have monthly shoots I just went up to the guy with the signup sheet and asked if I could watch and maybe ask a few questions as I was just starting out. The shooters were great. Many offered to let me try their guns out and have me some really good pointers. At the end of the shoot they told me I should be sure to come back next time. I ended up buying a used TC Hawken flintlock and have been shooting pretty regularly since. Three years later I’ve now got a TVM built gun and shoot just about every month as well as an occasional day hunting with it. I’d encourage anyone to spend some time getting to know the other shooters at a local club.
 
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