Need Powder advice

[mbw907]

I recently saw some Graf brand black powder for sale and was wondering if anyone had any comments on its performance, whether good or bad. Graf and sons are out of Goex right now and I thought about giving the Graf a try. But I don't want four pounds (minimum) of it if it is not good. Thanks Y'all :hatsoff:

 

[J.D.]

Graf's house brand powder is good stuff. Most people report cleaner burning and as good, if not better accuracy than with GOEX.

I bought several pounds of Graf's powder the last time I was out that way, and don't regret it one bit.
J.D.

 

[Slamfire]

I bought 10 lbs from them last year, and it works just great. It's made by Wano, a German outfit. They also make schutezen powder, I don't know if its the same, but it's good stuff. :v

 

[mbw907]

Thanks for the feedback. I think I will give it a try. What you have said makes me confident enough to proceed with my order.

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Great stuff, it is all I use anymore.

 

[PreglerD]

As already told the Graf's BP is from WANO, Pulvermühle Kunigunde, GE. It is new designed, because the old BP was an awful dirty stuff. the new one is pretty good. I use it and I'm very exited. It is price worth and brings good accuracy. It is available in all Fg's from 1F to 4 F, but in GE graded in P's from 1P to 4 P. I use 3P in my .45 GPR and my .54 Investarm Hawken.

 

[Runner]

High consistancy and soft fouling. Power was about equal to Goex in the batch I tested. Using it, my guns produce red streaks at the muzzle. Last meat shoot I shot, I finished second using it. The guy that won was shooting Shuetzen, which is the same powder. The Graf's bottle has the Shuetzen tag in one corner on the back and produced by Wano in the other.
I prefer it over Goex, but not enough to go to a lot of extra effort to get it. The local Graf's here told me they were going to stop carrying it at their store and that it would be order only from now on about a year back. They cited slow sales as why.

 

[jdixon]

I recently saw some Graf brand black powder for sale and was wondering if anyone had any comments on its performance, whether good or bad. Graf and sons are out of Goex right now and I thought about giving the Graf a try. But I don't want four pounds (minimum) of it if it is not good. Thanks Y'all :hatsoff:

See this post -[url] http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/200150/post/349299/hl//#349299[/url]

this post contains good information on Graf performace compared to other popular brands. In short, Graf doesn't have the steam the others do but, it seems to be very consistent, usually giving you very decent extreme spread numbers. I use it for target practice, would not suggest it for a hunting load.

 

[Mad Monk]

Kirrmeister,

It took me 10 years to get WANO to clean up their act on their small-arms black powder for the U.S. market. In 2001 there was something of a house cleaning in management in that company.
They wanted to get into the U.S. market very badly in 2001. They were told flat out that they would do it my way or it would be no deal with the Schutzen Powder getting into the U.S. So I walked the factory through producing an alder charcoal rifle burn rate powder.

 

[wolfram]

I use it for target practice, would not suggest it for a hunting load.

Why wouldn't you use Grafs for a hunting load? Looking at your chrono numbers, out at 100 yards Grafs is only going 100 ft/s slower than the Swiss load. The edge goes to Swiss in terms of velocity, but I doubt the animal will notice the 100 ft/s difference. Even at the muzzle, do you think that there's a deer out there that wouldn't fall to a .490 ball at 1577 ft/s?

Thanks for the chrono results. It is interesting to see what kind of velocities the different powders give.

 

[Mad Monk]

When the subject of the Schuetzen powder first came up in 2001 it was felt that the Swiss could not be beat when it came to sporting type (burn rate) powders. That what was needed for the U.S. market was a rifle type (burn rate) powder based on an alder wood charcoal.
When formulating and processing a rifle type powder you are going for a specific set of powder properties. In effect, a particular velocity range for a given amount of powder charged in the gun.

The initial experimental batch of the Schuetzen did not come up to the velocity specs for a rifle type powder. The final full-scale production run powder did fall right into a rifle type powder spec.

In my .50 caliber GPR with a mule ear percussion lock. .490 balls with .018" #40 cotton drill patching.

First shipment.

Schuetzen 2Fg
60 grs. gave 1315 fps ave.
90 grs. gave 1576 fps ave.
120 grs. gave 1766 fps ave.

Goex 2Fg, 02MA04B
60 grs. gave 1365 fps ave.
90 grs. gave 1611 fps ave.
120 grs. gave 1845 fps ave.

Goex 2Fg, 02FE06B
60 grs. gave 1353 fps ave.
90 grs. gave 1616 fps ave.
120 grs. gave 1852 fps ave.

GOEX CTG, 02MA08B
60 grs. gave 1296 fps ave.
90 grs. gave 1572 fps ave.
120 grs. gave 1796 fps ave.


Schuetzen 3Fg
60 grs. gave 1345 fps ave.
80 grs. gave 1570 fps ave.

Goex 3Fg, 01NO14B
60 grs. gave 1347 fps ave.
80 grs. gave 1541 fps ave.


Accuracy with both Goex and Schuetzen was better than I could deal with with aging eyes.

 

[54mountain]

I've been using schuetzen for about 5 years now and I would take it over goex any day. I think it cleans easier with less fouling and as the chart shows it's just as powerful (just my opinion)

 

[shmrck1]

Shantheman,
I've used it without any complaints,
I just prefer Goex.
snake-eyes :hmm: