• This community needs YOUR help today. We rely 100% on Supporting Memberships to fund our efforts. With the ever increasing fees of everything, we need help. We need more Supporting Members, today. Please invest back into this community. I will ship a few decals too in addition to all the account perks you get.



    Sign up here: https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/account/upgrades

Need help in identifying a muzzleloader pls help!

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
And it’s AB Connely so sorry.
Again, I’m not an expert just a lady trying to get some information- I apologize grenadier1758 I’m not sure what a frizzen spring is! Yikes.
 
Last edited:
I was wondering , with Christine's permission, if someone could be found in area where she lives that could help her determine more about this rifle. As an example , if she were in Texas I know of and read/seen the works and information of a few gentlemen who would be excellent sources of information for her. The fact her Grandfather acquired the rifle back in 30's is intriguing enough ! Just for our curiosity Id suggest taking a photo of the muzzle end with a ruler/tape measure across it which would show width of barrel and idea of bore. Last, if some of the senior members here could better assist her on here or Gunbroker to help her list it . I agree in the "Dont sell" group but thats us who have a attraction to the history of such firearms,especially if connected with Family.
 
You’re very kind. Right now I live in Cincinnati, OH.
My farther and grandpa grew up in Bloomsburg PA.
Like I said I’ve been in touch with the
Nmla over email and no luck. What about a phone call?
Yes this was purchased at an auction and doesn’t have any family tie I would just hate to get rid of it for a quick buck if it was actually worth double and I had just waited a few weeks.
I got some pictures with measuring tape and I’ll be uploading them today!
 
Let's try a visual.
Description.jpg

While this is a Flint Lock for a Brown Bess, the Parts are similar enough.
If you have a lock plate for a flint lock, there will be two holes in the plate for the frizzen spring. One hole is on the bar just above the tip of the arrow pointing to the frizzen spring to locate a pin on the spring so the spring can flex to control the resistance of the frizzen to the flint that is scraping sparks from the surface of the frizzen. Your lock plate has only one hole. The locating pin for the main spring for this lock can be seen just above the bolt for the feather (frizzen) spring.

I broke a mainspring in my Percussion lock Hawken rifle. My replacement spring required a new hole for the locating pin on that mainspring, therefore that lock plate has an extra hole. That's why I think your lock has a replacement mainspring.

Flint Lock 02.JPG

On this lock the screw holding the spring to the plate is internal and the locating pin can be barely seen on the lower arm of the frizzen spring. I hope this gives you a better visual idea of what Is different with respect to your lock.

So, unless the entire lock was replaced, I doubt your rifle was ever a flint lock.
 
One more picture. This picture is of a L&R Manton Flint Lock that was converted to percussion.

Flint Lock 03.JPG


It is plain to see where the pan was ground off and the axle bolt for the frizzen was ground down. It can also be seen on the bottom edge of the lock where the bolt holding the frizzen spring was ground down and the locating pin for the spring was plugged. The smith that did this conversion plugged all the holes and did a pretty good conversion to fit the drum to the plate.
 
The general lines of this rifle suggest as Zonie said, mid 1800's to post Civil War. I feel certain that it was always a percussion rifle. If someone handed it to me, I would guess Pennsylvania or Ohio as origin. Just my 2 cents.
 
I tried tweeking her photo of the lock to see if we could see more details, here is my attempt. Would be interesting to see the other side (inside) of the lock
 

Attachments

  • 67B1B910-657D-4632-BC1E-8624ED6F892Eb.jpeg
    67B1B910-657D-4632-BC1E-8624ED6F892Eb.jpeg
    75.5 KB · Views: 192
E23FE819-01D4-41DF-B53C-C91E8B25015E.jpeg
F517A6B9-04AA-4DEA-AFE7-4CF23C09D3B6.jpeg
477220A4-BE02-42EA-BB41-54CAB7E6B8BA.jpeg
243277EE-7C0C-4F57-A0E3-41698D03097C.jpeg
Okay I got new pictures with measuring tape and found a new engraving! It looks like a “G & F” also I notice the screw on the gold panel when you turn it it also turns the little screw on the panel directly opposite horizontally.
 

Attachments

  • 16E10E66-2EE3-4CAE-8D1A-F2EF542BC2AA.jpeg
    16E10E66-2EE3-4CAE-8D1A-F2EF542BC2AA.jpeg
    81.9 KB · Views: 179
  • 43DEDFA7-77B5-408E-B3BA-E4D375F935D7.jpeg
    43DEDFA7-77B5-408E-B3BA-E4D375F935D7.jpeg
    83.1 KB · Views: 177
  • F9A4D529-168F-482F-9154-0FB57A52521C.jpeg
    F9A4D529-168F-482F-9154-0FB57A52521C.jpeg
    170.4 KB · Views: 173
  • D527AA8D-48E7-4228-B6E0-B2AD0F955219.jpeg
    D527AA8D-48E7-4228-B6E0-B2AD0F955219.jpeg
    108.2 KB · Views: 177
  • 0864E8C4-1B8D-4550-8219-6EFCC24D6BFD.jpeg
    0864E8C4-1B8D-4550-8219-6EFCC24D6BFD.jpeg
    98.1 KB · Views: 191
  • 938D5CD0-4FEF-4AB5-AA98-AB419A8B0928.jpeg
    938D5CD0-4FEF-4AB5-AA98-AB419A8B0928.jpeg
    43.1 KB · Views: 158
The G & F is the last photo here
 

Attachments

  • 52B8B73C-DB90-470B-AEBB-FAC58D2CB237.jpeg
    52B8B73C-DB90-470B-AEBB-FAC58D2CB237.jpeg
    44.4 KB · Views: 178
  • 3CC2F5CF-791C-4B94-86FB-7F5456428345.jpeg
    3CC2F5CF-791C-4B94-86FB-7F5456428345.jpeg
    132.2 KB · Views: 178
  • C75A2826-F350-45B2-A324-8CEB3F8E3F6E.jpeg
    C75A2826-F350-45B2-A324-8CEB3F8E3F6E.jpeg
    88.6 KB · Views: 181
According to earmi.it:

G. F.
Initials of George Flegel, Master Armorer U.S. Arsenal, 1815; U.S. Inspector of Contract Arms, 1823 at plant of Asa Waters. Probably the "GF" inspector of arms at the Henry Deringer plant in 1814. G. F. - Unidentified. Percussion Kentucky rifles.
 
Good pics. Unfortunately that crack across the bottom under the lock panels probably changes everything about the gun's potential value, not for the better.
Too bad too. I'm not really into cap locks, but I think it is a really cool gun.
 
CS, don't get discouraged. Cracks can be repaired. Does the crack go through the stock on the opposite side of the lock and hammer? It could always be worse, like the stock in two pieces.
 
Guys, yall have answered a lot of questions for the lady,,what it is and what its not,,everything but what she wants to know,,what do you think its worth,,
 
Value for a direct sale is probably dependent to some extent on location. I might drop my original estimate of value by $100, but still think it is worth at least $300. I’ve just not seen full stock originals for less at local fun shows or shops. Most ask more. I’m not an expert or appraiser so don’t go by what I say. Be cautious and don’t let someone talk you into selling for a junk price.

come on folks chime in. Surely someone can give a better assessment than I have given.
 
I'm certainly no expert on values, I really don't feel comfortable hoarding a w.a.g. even. It really seems the sort of thing one needs to have hands on time with the piece to get an idea of how bad damage is compared to what is in good shape, in order to get a fair assessment of value.
I would say that I would be tempted to part with 3 or 4 hundred bucks for it if I had such funds hanging around.
It may not be as old as I'm usually interested in with these things, but, it it could talk it would have some stories and history to tell.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top