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technologiq

Pilgrim
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Aug 8, 2018
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Hello,

I acquired this muzzleloader from my father after he moved out of the country and know almost nothing about it other than he purchased it from a private sale about 20 years ago. I took it to a local vintage firearm dealer but he also knew nothing about it. I was hoping I could get some help from the community here getting more information and understanding about this firearm.

I know it is eastern European and appears to be from the 1800's but I couldn't find anything when I search for the names or identifying marks on the muzzleloader itself.

I'm adding a link to a gallery of photos I've taken of the muzzleloader. If anyone could provide any insight I would be very appreciative.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/uUMxeGnWyf6Zhh7u8

Thank you!

Jeremy
 
Nice images of a North German hunting rifle from the 1840's or thereabouts. It was made in Schwerin, a beautiful old city, capital of the state of Mecklinburg,not far from the Baltic coast in Germany. Schwerin is most famous for its remarkable Schlossinsel - it has fairy-tale palace on a little island in the lake.

I'll do a little bit of digging in Stockel for the maker.

Edit. Can't find any mention.

tac :shake:
 
The fine inlay of the breech area, reading 'TURC A RUBANS' or 'Turkish-style twist', refers to the method of manufacture of the barrel, is not an name. The name on the barrel and the lock - I. Heinischen [of] Schwerin does not appear in my old Stockel.

Whatever it is, it is a very fine piece, with a beautiful German silver [sogt. Neusilber] cast trigger guard, inlay-work and very fine craftsmanship from muzzle to butt-plate.

The use of a percussion lock dates it to after the late 1830'/early 1840's. IF you can ever be tempted to take the barrel out of the stock - maybe with the help of somebody who is VERY familiar with this style of gun, you will find a number of proof marks of the style that were required at this early date. Perhaps one of them might offer a clue as to the DOM. At that time, Germany per se did not exist, and each state had its own proof houses for its military and civilian firearms. National/imperial proof houses became rationalised in 1891 with the passing of the proof laws.

tac

PS, here in Europe, 'East European' refers to the former Soviet Bloc nations, but certainly NOT to Germany, then or now.
 
tac said:
The fine inlay of the breech area, reading 'TURC A RUBANS' or 'Turkish-style twist', refers to the method of manufacture of the barrel, is not an name. The name on the barrel and the lock - I. Heinischen [of] Schwerin does not appear in my old Stockel.

Whatever it is, it is a very fine piece, with a beautiful German silver [sogt. Neusilber] cast trigger guard, inlay-work and very fine craftsmanship from muzzle to butt-plate.

The use of a percussion lock dates it to after the late 1830'/early 1840's. IF you can ever be tempted to take the barrel out of the stock - maybe with the help of somebody who is VERY familiar with this style of gun, you will find a number of proof marks of the style that were required at this early date. Perhaps one of them might offer a clue as to the DOM. At that time, Germany per se did not exist, and each state had its own proof houses for its military and civilian firearms. National/imperial proof houses became rationalised in 1891 with the passing of the proof laws.

tac

PS, here in Europe, 'East European' refers to the former Soviet Bloc nations, but certainly NOT to Germany, then or now.

Did you try looking for Heinisch instead of Heinischen?

In a search I did, that seems to be a common name in Schwerin. If you look on the lock, it says (I,J, or maybe L) Heinisch, in Schwerin
 
I tried for every combination - Heinisch, Heinischen, Heinisch in with a space and without, as depicted in the image. with an I and J - interchangeable initial letter for Johann or Iohannes [the Latin form was commonly used on guns of that period], with no success.

Whatever and whoever, it is a very fine piece and worth taking care of in a serious manner.

The complex rifling form is very common in Europe between the early 17-hundreds and the beginning of machine-cut rifling.

tac
 
I've got a lot on my mind right now, but it has just occurred to me that you've put this query under the flintlock heading. Since this is a percussion rifle, and not any kind of flintlock, you have automatically cut down your reading audience by a substantial margin.

If Zonie can relocate this thread into the correct part of the forum, that would be great, and you might just get some better answers from folks who know all about German percussion rifles... :hmm:

tac
 
While I can't help with the identification, I just want to mention what a beautiful gun this is. Congratulations. I would be so tempted to shoot it.
Wonderful condition. It does seem that many of the higher quality firearms from the period were also kept in good condition by their owner(s).

Rick
 
They cost a lot of money back then, and were mostly owned by people who had the lifestyle to keep them preserved. One place we used to stay in Germany, Schloss Junkerhees, had walls lined with row upon row of original arms, all in 1st class fully-working order, and we are talking here of hundreds of guns.

The higher quality arms of the period, that did not get left on mountainsides after the bears or the indians got the owner [mainly on account of the lack of both in Western Europe], have survived to come down to us, as the likes of auctions by Julia, Rock Island Arsenal and Christies's show every week.

A pal of mine here in UK collects hammer shotguns of all makes from around 1840 on - he has about two hundred of them, and is continually adding more. His little collection, small by American standards, but quite large here, is worth about a £1/4M, since he only collects the top end guns. Every one of them is either fine to mint, and the rows of these beautiful artifacts for sale fill the sales rooms here in UK.

Anyhow, that apart, where has the thread gone? I can't find it on the percussion thread.

tac
 
The rifle looks very similar styliscally to Suhl made rifles. Perhaps the gunmaker moved from Suhl. I did a search and found a list of "gunmakers in Suhl" but can not read the fine print on my phone.
 
What a beautiful rifle... so many lovely little touches that bespeak quality. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

What is the caliber? Am I correct in thinking that the separation in the stock is due to wood shrinkage over the years thwarted by wedges and screws?

I, too was unable to locate any information on the maker.

Richard/Grumpa
 
I bet you there was a GI and a overseas bag in that rifle's past.
No telling??
It could have been traded for a carton of smokes... K rations or some Hershey bars.
 
I wonder about the significance of the small marking near the front of the lockplate after the makers name (a.d/w)? Again I cannot see the fine detail on my phone.
 
I found a Johann Heinisch of Schwerin Germany and Warst Austria in a geneology list. It fit the time frame but there were several that did. No information there and lists from the era are difficult for me to read because of the "bizzare" text style
 

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