Need Advice On Brown Bess

[RicM]

I have an offer to buy a Pedersoli Brown Bess Musket for $1,200 that has never been fired and is not a kit long gun. Though I would love an original $$$$$ that can shoot, but my wife would promptly test fire it on me. So any advice on the quality, opinions, pros and cons on the Pedersoli Brrown Bess. Seen photos already and its in new condition undamaged.
Thanks!

 

[HassoBoxhead]

Pedersoli’ a are solid muskets, the go-to for reenactors. I have one and it’s excellent. $1200 is a good deal.

 

[Are. M.]

Pedersoli makes a quality product, and I'm friends with a couple of people who one thir Bess and Charleville repros. Aside from some historical inaccuracies, they say they're good shooters and they have the targets to prove it.

Hope this helps.

 

[mark_fare]

I love mine. A very versatile weapon.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
For detailed information go here:
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/new-reworking-a-pedersoli-brown-bess.107405/
here:

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...nto-a-dublin-castle-short-land-musket.138872/
and here.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/a-pedersoli-brown-bess-kit.147669/dave

 

[RicM]

Thanks Guys

 

[Grenadier1758]

Of course, a Brown Bess is a smooth bored musket that is not rifled. But judging from all the Brown Bess threads in the Flintlock Rifle forum... Still @RicM needs a reasonable answer. Brand new from the retailer Brown Besses are selling for more than $1,500 so the price is not unreasonable for a Second Model Brown Bess that one can shoot.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I have an offer to buy a Pedersoli Brown Bess Musket for $1,200 that has never been fired and is not a kit long gun. Though I would love an original $$$$$ that can shoot, but my wife would promptly test fire it on me. So any advice on the quality, opinions, pros and cons on the Pedersoli Brrown Bess. Seen photos already and its in new condition undamaged.
Thanks!

If you read what Mr. Person has posted very recently regarding the Bess, please try to determine when it was made. The older the better, and yes they can be several years old and not have been fired.

LD

 

[DuncNZ]

Of course, a Brown Bess is a smooth bored musket that is not rifled. But judging from all the Brown Bess threads in the Flintlock Rifle forum...

I find people who should know better , shooters , dealers etc , calling a smooth bore a rifle ,any muzzle loading fire arm a musket etc, it is just par for the course

 

[FlinterNick]

You can do better than 1200, I got a bicentennial Pedersoli for 700, refinished it and upgraded the lock internals.

Just don’t go heavy on defarb work, it will never be a second model Brown Bess unless you restock it and change out some other parts.

 

[Rock Home Isle]

I have an offer to buy a Pedersoli Brown Bess Musket for $1,200 that has never been fired and is not a kit long gun. Though I would love an original $$$$$ that can shoot, but my wife would promptly test fire it on me. So any advice on the quality, opinions, pros and cons on the Pedersoli Brrown Bess. Seen photos already and its in new condition undamaged.
Thanks!

I have a Pedersoli Brown Bess carbine that I built from a kit. I’ve had this gun for almost 30 years and the quality of the gun has been amazing. The large lock allows for a large flint…I’ve never had an ignition problem with the gun and it’s has served very well in educating me on the functionality of the flintlock firearm.

For the times that we currently live in…that’s a great price on your proposed purchase.

Enjoy

 

[Rifleman1776]

They are far from being perfect replicas of a BB. But they are representative of military muskets of the Rev. period. My 1976 version, built from a kit, was a hoot to shoot. If you get it be prepared to do some work (trigger, lock, inlets) to make it a decent shooter.

 

[dave_person]

Hi Ric,
Why do you want a Brown Bess? They are not great hunting guns and at 75 caliber, are not great plinking guns either. So do you want one because of their historical significance? If so, the Pedersoli lacks a great deal and so do all the commercially made alternatives. For $1200 you can get a Kibler long rifle kit that has a superb lock, historically correct stock architecture, and superb hardware. For that same price for your Pedersoli Brown Bess, you get a lock that may or may not be well made but always with a trigger pull >8-10 lbs, hardware inlet at a mediocre level of care, and a design that is not historically accurate. At $1200 the Pedersoli Bess is no bargain in my opinion. It would be barely a bargain at $700-800.

dave

 

[Youngblood]

If you want a bess, its a good deal. Buy it.

 

[SirFrancis]

I know this is not a popular opinion, but you can also consider the Loyalist Arms besses, imported from India. I picked up one used for $500 (new they may be a couple hundred more with shipping?) and later just happened upon an original LLP slightly cut down.

The India made Bess is, undeniably, a Brown Bess. In general the scale, details, trim, and features of the original are the same. Was the workmanship and quality of the original a bit better? Sure. But the India piece is no slouch IF you get a good one. It will give you the look, feel, and experience of shooting a Bess, probably better than the Pedersoli of 2022, certainly at great savings of money. The Pedersoli has incorrect stock architecture, incorrect lock markings for the era it is from. The India Bess may be heavier than the original due to more dense wood being used, plus fit-finish-function can be highly variable as there are several makers. The only better option than these two is a TRS kit which is a whole other kettle of fish in terms of requiring a skilled builder and potentially years of patience.

Personally I’d pick the Pedersoli if it’s a nice used older one and I could get it for 900 or less. But I’d rather buy an India copy if I have to shell out 1200-1500 for an Italian copy.

 

[FlinterNick]

I would never pay more than $800 for a used Pedersoli Bess.

I would also ever buy a brand new one.

I would look at your purchase as an investment.

You’ll likely return around 1000-1300 on a 1200 Pedersoli Bess in very good condition.

Indian made arms typically return much less and require 200-500 of additional work. Sunk costs.

I think the best choice is to get a used miroku or Pedersoli.

 

[Frederickdav]

Of course, a Brown Bess is a smooth bored musket that is not rifled. But judging from all the Brown Bess threads in the Flintlock Rifle forum... Still @RicM needs a reasonable answer. Brand new from the retailer Brown Besses are selling for more than $1,500 so the price is not unreasonable for a Second Model Brown Bess that one can shoot.

Another option: Access Heritage. India made Bess's for $599. I bought a 3rd model and it's not perfect but for $599 it's pretty darn good.

 

[dave_person]

Hi Folks,
I think RicM is just asking about the pros and cons of the Pedersoli Bess repro because he may have an option on one. I don't think he is looking for other ideas or options. RicM, please correct me if I am wrong about that. I asked RicM why he wanted the Bess not to question his desire for one but because it is directly relevant to the objective assessment of the pros and cons of a Pedersoli Bess. If someone wants a Bess-like gun just to shoot and have in their collection, the Pedersolis are fine. They almost always need tweaking to make them shoot well but that is not too big a deal. However, they are pricey compared with the other India-made guns that would probably serve such a use just as well if you buy it from a reputable dealer like Loyalist Arms. If you want a hunting gun, IMO the Pedersoli is not a good choice. It will serve the purpose but for many folks it won't fit because the stock is very straight, and it is heavy and clumsy. Finally, if you want one for reenacting and are concerned with historical accuracy you have a problem. The Pedersoli is not historically accurate, never was, and if the latest kit gun I helped complete for a friend is an indication, the new Besses are even less historically correct. For example, they now use the top jaw screw from the pattern 1777 with the hole and the sear hole is drilled too low in the lock plate.

dave

 

[FlinterNick]

Hi Folks,
I think RicM is just asking about the pros and cons of the Pedersoli Bess repro because he may have an option on one. I don't think he is looking for other ideas or options. RicM, please correct me if I am wrong about that. I asked RicM why he wanted the Bess not to question his desire for one but because it is directly relevant to the objective assessment of the pros and cons of a Pedersoli Bess. If someone wants a Bess-like gun just to shoot and have in their collection, the Pedersolis are fine. They almost always need tweaking to make them shoot well but that is not too big a deal. However, they are pricey compared with the other India-made guns that would probably serve such a use just as well if you buy it from a reputable dealer like Loyalist Arms. If you want a hunting gun, IMO the Pedersoli is not a good choice. It will serve the purpose but for many folks it won't fit because the stock is very straight, and it is heavy and clumsy. Finally, if you want one for reenacting and are concerned with historical accuracy you have a problem. The Pedersoli is not historically accurate, never was, and if the latest kit gun I helped complete for a friend is an indication, the new Besses are even less historically correct. For example, they now use the top jaw screw from the pattern 1777 with the hole and the sear hole is drilled too low in the lock plate.

dave

Dave is giving the best advice here.

All I can say is the cost of a pedersoli has gone up so much in the last 10 years and is expected to reach nearly 1500$ for new made muskets, I would have to pass up on any new inventory.

We’re at the point with the rifle shoppe where I’d probably say get your order for a kit in as the wait is going on nearly 2 years for some, and they’re looking at decreasing what they have available in terms of patterns.

 

[SirFrancis]

I agree, the best way to answer the question is to ask yourself why you want one. And just to be clear, wanting a Bess is not at all a bad thing. They’re cool. They represent a great window into history. I wanted one since I was a small child reading stories about the revolutionary war. And no other gun would be quite the same.

They’re fun to shoot, but they’re also not (in my opinion) a gun that lends itself to being exercised every time you go to the range, just because compared to other muzzleloaders they’re heavy, have poor to nonexistent sights, a heavy trigger pull, and are very greedy for powder, lead, and possibly flints. They’re also pretty lousy as hunting pieces for all the same reasons. That’s why I recommend the cheaper repros to scratch the itch (because $1200 is darn expensive in my book! I think most of us wouldn’t mind spending that money but I personally would want it to have few and very minor quibbles at that price.)