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Need a permit to purchase a BP revolver?

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rshveyda

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I know you are replying with KEDSFAN in mind, but as soon as Zonie gets wind of any discussion about cartridge guns, this thread will be locked.

You folks need to read the rules...

Jim
Read my *Disclaimer at the bottom of my post. I fully support the moderators' right to close or delete my post or this thread, or even infract or suspend my account for rules violation. We are all playing in their house.

Not to mention there can be very little site appropriate discussion in a thread started about the trend of regulating cap and ball revolvers like modern firearms, especially when the entire reason is because they can be easily made to fire unmentionables by a simple cylinder swap.
 

sourdough

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Read my *Disclaimer at the bottom of my post. I fully support the moderators' right to close or delete my post or this thread, or even infract or suspend my account for rules violation. We are all playing in their house.

Not to mention there can be very little site appropriate discussion in a thread started about the trend of regulating cap and ball revolvers like modern firearms, especially when the entire reason is because they can be easily made to fire unmentionables by a simple cylinder swap.
Evidently you don't know the mod Zonie, no matter any disclaimers by you. You posted it.

Good luck.

Jim
 

Zonie

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Up to a point, I allow mention of modern firearms on the forum if doing it clarifies the point being made.

From what I've read so far, I think the posts meet this requirement. Just don't get into a lengthy discussion of it.

There is also a forum rule that says we don't talk about "conversion cylinders" on the forum. I am applying the same, "if it clarifies the point being made" idea to those posts too.
 

KEDSFAN

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Up to a point, I allow mention of modern firearms on the forum if doing it clarifies the point being made.

From what I've read so far, I think the posts meet this requirement. Just don't get into a lengthy discussion of it.

There is also a forum rule that says we don't talk about "conversion cylinders" on the forum. I am applying the same, "if it clarifies the point being made" idea to those posts too.
I'm new here and I am learning some of the terms used and what is frowned upon. I expect when someone uses the term "unmentionable" Sharps etc. it means the opposite of a muzzleloader. Every discussion board has its' own unique nomenclature.
 

Sam squanch

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I believe the talk of repealing liability protections that gunmakers have is causing some worries to some sporting goods stores, and gun shops, big and small. They want to cover their butts. Which plays into the universal background checks that the new administration wants. An awful lot of people will not sell their used firearm without going to an FFL to make the buyer get a check, or insist on seeing your CCW permit. Can’t blame them, really.
 

BJm

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This is just ridiculous.. a permit for a muzzle loader.. to some of this is an art and it’s a damn shame that we can not freely enjoy it in some places.
In Australia Muzzle loaders ( rifle, shotgun ,pistol, revolvers ) are deemed to be items of mass destruction & registration is required & can only be sold from dealer to dealer. Most clubs can witness a transfer but prior application is via Police written approval. However antiques prior 1900 are exempt if commercial ammunition is not available. There raises another issue that if the said antique is stolen , how do you prove its existance for insurance claims if it is not registered ? Random Police inspections are carried out to ensure that ALL firearms are in "safes" or equivilent & ammunition stored seperately. Pistol licences are for 1 year only & minimum number of club competition shoots are reqd. Gun Club membership is compulsory for ALL handguns .You guys have it so easy, don't let them screw with your Second Amendment.
 

ugly old guy

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At one if the local pawn shops (in Idaho, their headquarters is in Washington (state)) requires a background check to purchase a firearm, black powder arm (long gun, pistol, or revolver) paint ball gun, blowgun, archery bow or crossbow.

The Feds don't consider a muzzleloader or cap and ball revolver or any other arm that uses loose powder and ball regardless of age a "firearm". They are specifically excluded in the 1968 Gun Control Act.

States and some cities like Chicago, NYC, and DC may have resteictions on them though.
Some companies (like that pawnshop) can also restrict sales and require what the law dosen't.
 

TFoley

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In Australia Muzzle loaders ( rifle, shotgun ,pistol, revolvers ) are deemed to be items of mass destruction & registration is required & can only be sold from dealer to dealer. Most clubs can witness a transfer but prior application is via Police written approval. However antiques prior 1900 are exempt if commercial ammunition is not available. There raises another issue that if the said antique is stolen , how do you prove its existance for insurance claims if it is not registered ? Random Police inspections are carried out to ensure that ALL firearms are in "safes" or equivilent & ammunition stored seperately. Pistol licences are for 1 year only & minimum number of club competition shoots are reqd. Gun Club membership is compulsory for ALL handguns .You guys have it so easy, don't let them screw with your Second Amendment.
Jeebers. Makes the UK positively paradisical!!! Even here in UK the police can NOT do a random check of your guns unless they have a warrant supporting their concerns that you may have been involved in criminal activities and actually using them. I've had an FAC here in UK, in various counties, since 1968, and have NEVER had a random check carried out by anybody, police or their authorised personnel the Firearms Enquiries Officers, civilians who actually carry out the day-to-day running of the Firearms and Explosives Licensing Department of the county police forces.
 

TFoley

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At one if the local pawn shops (in Idaho, their headquarters is in Washington (state)) requires a background check to purchase a firearm, black powder arm (long gun, pistol, or revolver) paint ball gun, blowgun, archery bow or crossbow.

The Feds don't consider a muzzleloader or cap and ball revolver or any other arm that uses loose powder and ball regardless of age a "firearm". They are specifically excluded in the 1968 Gun Control Act.

States and some cities like Chicago, NYC, and DC may have resteictions on them though.
Some companies (like that pawnshop) can also restrict sales and require what the law dosen't.
Sounds like an immoveable definition to me. Unless there is some way of weasel-wording the word 'excluded' that has thus far eluded me.
 

KEDSFAN

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Sounds like an immoveable definition to me. Unless there is some way of weasel-wording the word 'excluded' that has thus far eluded me.
Definnitions can easily be changed. Back in 1968 I learned in biology class that we only had two genders. Now they say we have something like fifty seven genders and that men can get pregnant. These are the same people who cannot understand the simple phrase......the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
 

TFoley

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Definnitions can easily be changed. Back in 1968 I learned in biology class that we only had two genders. Now they say we have something like fifty seven genders and that men can get pregnant. These are the same people who cannot understand the simple phrase......the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
Seems that the word 'not' is the one that confuses them...
 

Siringo

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I live in Minnesota and have purchased black powder handguns from reputable national dealers. These were sent directly to my home. I have also purchased black powder handguns from licensed dealers in the state without need of permitting or NICS check.

Possession of any firearm is regulated by MN Statute. This includes matchlocks. If you fall into the ineligible category, you can not be in possession no matter how it was obtained.
 

jimhallam

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First of all, would it be a good idea to use the term "ML" rather than "BP" because the latter can also refer to cartridge firearms pre 1899. Zonie is very fair in that he allows reference where it clarifies the discussion.

Let's go right back to the first page.
624.712 DEFINITIONS
Subd. 3. Antique firearm. "Antique firearm" means any firearm, including any pistol, with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system, manufactured before 1899 and any replica of any firearm described herein if such replica is not designed or redesigned, made or remade, or intended to fire conventional rimfire or conventional centerfire ammunition, or uses conventional rimfire or conventional centerfire ammunition which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

Subd. 12. Exclusions. Except as otherwise provided in section 609.66, subdivision 1f, this section shall not apply to transfers of antique firearms as curiosities or for their historical significance or value, transfers to or between federally licensed firearms.


This underlined section is the crux of the matter IF the "firearm" is NOT held for that reason. The possession of caps, powder and ball would be held to be evidence of intention to use it.

This is just like the UK, where one can hold an antique firearm as a "curiosity or ornament" and then it is subject to the exemption, (but it is still a "lethal barrelled firearm") the difference being that we don't have the "magic date" for reproductions/replicas. The reference above is a straight copy of the Federal Laws. The "remade ..... " caveat refers to conversion cylinders etc... and at present a strict application of the part referring to ammunition is under threat because now many "Cowboy Action Shooters" are able to buy new ammo in calibres (oops! calibers) which WERE not readily available.

Local jurisdictions can confuse the issue -- even down to city level, where in some places the Sheriff is a dictator. When I used to be in MA I could never undersand why their State Laws required different authority if (e.g., ) a pistol had a larger magazine than 10 rounds. Of COURSE no-one would swap magazines, would they?

All that we can do is to follow the law where we have to and to firmly resist changes. Breaking the law (however unfair or unreasonable) just PROVES to the "antis" what they are trying to justify.
 

fraungie

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I was looking at a Pietta Colt .44 while at Cabelas in Delaware.In talking with the clerk, he told me that Cabelas would ship the revolver to a FFL in my state if I wanted to buy it.
A few weeks later, I walked into Cabelas in Pennsylvania and saw the same revolver. Picked it up from the shelf and paid for it at the checkout counter. No questions asked. I have heard that rule has been changed since my purchase. :mad:
I bought a cap n ball revolver from Cabela's in Hammond, IN. It was in their bargain cave. I am a PA resident. He never asked for ID or anything else. I agreed on the price took the gun to check out and handed the girl at check out my Visa and out the door I went. No fuss no muss. Although I have bought black powder at Cabela's, They made me pay for it at the gun counter and the guy said after the purchase he had to escort me to the door which he did. I think a lot of it is who the individual store person is. There are so many crazy laws that the checkout people are afraid to make a mistake and over compensate.
 

Diver63csa

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From a Minnesota lawyer:


"NO, you cannot possess and carry a black powder gun without a license.

The black powder gun is an exception to the Carry and Possess law for Antique Firearms discussed above.

A black powder gun in Minnesota is deemed a deadly weapon and an exception to the no license requirements for antique guns.

Minnesota calls black powder guns a firearm which a reasonable person would believe would kill if someone shot you with it."

I was wondering in minnesota can i carry a black powder revolver without a permit its considered antique thanks. No im (justanswer.com)

[/QUOTE
Jesse James must of had some influence on BP firearms in Minn.
 

herbpagel

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I have purchased firearms in the past. I needed a permit to purchase when I bought a modern semi-auto 1911. I didn't need a permit to purchase any muzzle-loader. I believe Minnesota law exempts muzzle loaders, at least as far as I know. I have ordered and received muzzle-loaders and kits in the mail and by UPS, as well as purchasing in person at stores. However, these purchases were a number of years ago. Things may have changed since then.
 

wb78963

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another good reason the live in Texas where not only can I purchase a firearm with little problem of state regulation but wear it when out shopping in town.
God Blessed Texas
Load 'em heavy boys
they air a' comin' for us
Bunk
 

smoothshooter

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I have purchased firearms in the past. I needed a permit to purchase when I bought a modern semi-auto 1911. I didn't need a permit to purchase any muzzle-loader. I believe Minnesota law exempts muzzle loaders, at least as far as I know. I have ordered and received muzzle-loaders and kits in the mail and by UPS, as well as purchasing in person at stores. However, these purchases were a number of years ago. Things may have changed since then.
Gonna’ change a whole lot more.
Not for the better.
Stand by.
Hang on.
 

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