Navy arms 2nd model dragoon

[bang]

Did this just start happening but worked right before?

 

[jdw276]

Did this just start happening but worked right before?

I am going to say been that way. Dont recall ever trying it though. I do have other cap and ball.

When i mean by working before, it was fine assembled as a gun to be fired. Taken apart, 3 pieces barrel cylinder leftovers, pulled cylinder off with hammer at half cock, wont budge.

 

[bang]

Ok, gun functions as should in my lap now all three hammer positions, removed barrel and cylinder with hammer on half cock. Hammer won't move frozen in place. Now took cylinder, put on arbor, pushed cylinder as if with barrel in place, hammer works, half, full, resting on cylinder.

Odd sounding. All my colts, walker and dragoon. The hammer work as it should with cylinder out. Guess yours is different.

 

[jdw276]

Odd sounding. All my colts, walker and dragoon. The hammer work as it should with cylinder out. Guess yours is different.

Grrrrr,

 

[bang]

Grrrrr,

Would like to see pixs of what you figured out. Never ran across it before.

 

[jdw276]

Would like to see pixs of what you figured out. Never ran across it before.

Still a tough trigger pull but here is one issue that surfaced in the latest take em apart....

Another cap got in there buried somewhere deep in there. That is now 3.5 plus caps in two complete disassemblies. Cap sucker! Think i just have to keep working withvthis one.

Is there a way to lighten the hammer pull from 2 thumbs to one?

 

[bang]

Yep that's a cloger. Try flipping it to the right when you cock it. I've found it works wonders for clearing them. There are ways to add a primer rake. But the flip works for me.

 

[jdw276]

Yep that's a cloger. Try flipping it to the right when you cock it. I've found it works wonders for clearing them. There are ways to add a primer rake. But the flip works for me.

This is nat'l scholastic shooting sports month. We had a shoot and educate for a local team that our club supports on bp cap and ball, rifles, flinter and percussion, along with a 1884 trapdoor loaded with real bp yesterday. They shot them all on their course of fire they shoot those semi autos on when they compete. Lets say their competition times went up just a little bit. When i shoot i try and turn right but they were just happy to have it go bang with an "oh s..." followed closely behind ignition. Shooting flinter rifles, 1887 winchester 12 ga shotguns, percussion rifles did nothing but make them more patient, appreciate things more and biggest of all was the GRINS and smiles followed by thank you!

Would loosening the main spring screw in the grip, say 1/2 turn, maybe full turn max make the hammer pull a bit easier?

 

[Blogman]

I sent all the info to my buddy, all of mine run smoothly. I think I might be over protective with mine.

 

[hawkeye2]

Ok, gun functions as should in my lap now all three hammer positions, removed barrel and cylinder with hammer on half cock. Hammer won't move frozen in place. Now took cylinder, put on arbor, pushed cylinder as if with barrel in place, hammer works, half, full, resting on cylinder.

Take the gun down and remove the hand (the thingie that is attached to the hammer and rotates the cylinder). Reassemble and without the cylinder and barrel in place try the action to see if the problem is still there. If so than there is a problem with the hand and/or the channel it moves in.

 

[jdw276]

Take the gun down and remove the hand (the thingie that is attached to the hammer and rotates the cylinder). Reassemble and without the cylinder and barrel in place try the action to see if the problem is still there. If so than there is a problem with the hand and/or the channel it moves in.

When i disassembled today based on this thread, was taking the hammer screw out then the hammer, the little thingy pictured fell out. Upon closer looking at it, a flattened cap. I think it was jamming up the hammer and rubbing making it difficult to pull the hammer back. Still not as easy as i would like but better for sure. I did take it all apart down to the hand and last screw and cleaned it up a bit.
Thanks all for the thoughts and getting me to look some more.

 

[hawkeye2]

Busted caps can be a real issue with Colts and it's amazing some of the places they can work into. BTW, .454" balls should take care of the issue of the balls moving forward and locking the gun up.

 

[jdw276]

Busted caps can be a real issue with Colts and it's amazing some of the places they can work into. BTW, .454" balls shoudl take care of the issue of the balls moving forward and locking the gun up.

I got work to do to make this work the way i want it to but none of it is impossible. Get the caps to stay in place along with the roundball is a very good start for reliability. Meassured a few swagged .454 and cast 454's. Roundball sure ain't round!

 

[bang]

Given the cap came out and it's still difficult you should completely disassemble it. May have more cap pieces deep in it. While its apart check every moving part and its mating surfaces for fouling, burrs and galling. Even if you don't find any polish all of it. Apply a bit of light grease to all of it. Not a bunch just enough thing will move easy but not collect a heap of dirt. Check the mainspring for any alignment issues. Make sure the roller on the hammer is free and lubed. Test the movement of the parts as you reassemble. If there is any problems inside they will show up.

 

[bang]

Ditto on the .454s. Even .457s. I like the .457s in dragoon and walker. Provides longer surface on ram for real good rifling contact. Cures any potential bore slippage from the higher pressure of the heavier powder charge.

 

[Bad Karma]

Ok, gun functions as should in my lap now all three hammer positions, removed barrel and cylinder with hammer on half cock. Hammer won't move frozen in place. Now took cylinder, put on arbor, pushed cylinder as if with barrel in place, hammer works, half, full, resting on cylinder.

I’d bet that there’s something going on with the hand. Jamming in it’s channel possibly?

 

[bang]

Just a side comment about my 3rd model Dragoon.
As you know, the Colt Walker had a bad problem with the loading lever dropping and jamming up the gun when it was fired.
Colt tried several things to redesign the loading lever lock. All of them involved putting a movable release tab in the forward end of the loading lever.

My Dragoon has one of his earlier attempts on its loading lever. I think it is a carryover from the 2nd model Dragoon.
Hanging down from the bottom of the arm is one small tab. To get the arm to release, this little tab must be pushed towards the cylinder and because of its small size and the force of the spring it needs to overcome to unlatch its grip on the barrel tab it is just about impossible to do.

I'm sure glad he figured out the latch with two serrated tabs, one sticking out one side and the other sticking out the other side of the arm is the best design.
He used these 2 tab releases on the 1851 and all of the later versions of his cap & ball pistols.

Even on my dragoon it would drop sometimes. I fixed it buy putting a spacer under the latch spring so it would utilize the full spring tension. Hasn't dropped since.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Reminds me of a time long ago in the dark ages when my hair was dark. A nice looking Uberti 1858 Remington in Navy caliber was on the table at a gun show. Being interested in Navy caliber pistols, I picked it up. Back then there was no requirement to block the hammer to prevent one from cocking the pistol. The hammer wouldn't move. Seller had no idea of the problem and he readily accepted my offer of half the asking price.

When I took the pistol apart, I discovered that the bolt holding the hand in place was backed out and dragging on the frame. A touch of RIG on the bolt and proper tightening to snug (I had already learned about overtightening bolts) and the action was smooth as I would have wanted it.

The take away from my story is that when these hard to operate issues come up, you have to be able to take that gun totally apart using the proper sized screwdrivers. Determine what is wrong. In the OP's case, this could be loose or tight screws, parts binding or cap debris clogging the action of the hand. So its now time to take that Dragoon apart. Look for cap debris or excessive caked on fouling. Look for loose or overtightened fasteners. Look to see if the bolt and trigger spring is properly installed. Look for burrs on the moving parts. You should be able to get that Navy Arms Dragoon to operate as it should.

 

[jdw276]

Shot it today, .454 roundball worked much better at staying in place. Will try 457 next but minimum will be 454 in the future.

Couple different caps. Could not find my regular strength CCI #11 caps. Had magnum, 2 different remington #11 and CCI#10's.

So four different caps 2 manufacturers. Remingtons won't bother again. Fell off way to easy. Did one cylinder of CCI#10's, pretty good and same for CCI#11 magnums. Much more reliable. Only concern was with these they were a bit later in the shooting sequence and could stick due to dirty stuff.

Next is try with clean gun the CCI's 10's and bring standard strength #11's along with 457 RB.

One step closer. Load is 45 grains 3f and a wonder wad pushing hornady .454. I am confident i will get there. Thanks for all the assistance, off to clean....

 

[bang]

To shoot is better than not to shoot. That's why we help each other.