Navy Arms 1864 Springfield

Discussion in 'Percussion Rifles' started by wcubed, Aug 23, 2019.

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  1. Aug 24, 2019 #21

    wcubed

    wcubed

    wcubed

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    Good catch. Sigh...
     
  2. Aug 24, 2019 #22

    dave951

    dave951

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    Yup, definitely rifled.
     
  3. Aug 24, 2019 #23

    wcubed

    wcubed

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    Obviously I still have some figuring out to do, as this is my first foray into the world of percussion.

    With that said, if the #11 caps were too small, they would not have seated fully down onto the nipple, correct?

    When the gun store owner that I visited placed a #11 cap from a tin on the shelf of his store onto the nipple, the inside diameter of the cap was so large that is was not even touching the side of the nipple. It could literally rattle around sitting on top of the nipple.

    At this point, I'm not sure what the heck is going on, but I intend to figure it out!
     
  4. Aug 24, 2019 #24

    dave951

    dave951

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    That or the shop owner doesn't know the difference between a 10, 11, and musket cap.
     
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  5. Aug 24, 2019 #25

    wcubed

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    And me being new to this, I wouldn't either! With that said, he did remove the cap from a tin that was clearly marked as #11.

    Before I run off to a different gun shop, does everything look normal, in relation to hammer size and nipple size, in this photo?

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Aug 24, 2019 #26

    dave951

    dave951

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    I saw a nipple on a Zouave this summer that wouldn't accept either a 10 or 11, but a musket cap rattled and would fall off. Just get a correct nipple from S&S and get on with shooting it.
     
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  7. Aug 24, 2019 #27

    TFoley

    TFoley

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    The gun you show has a musket nipple.
     
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  8. Aug 24, 2019 #28

    bang

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    I shoot my Zouave with #11 and have no ignition issues. If you choose to use #11 make sure of the thread size. Probably either a 5/16 x 18 or 8mm x 1.25. Track of wolf has both.
     
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  9. Aug 24, 2019 #29

    Grenadier1758

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    If you can, measure the diameter of the nipple at the top of the cone. That will help a lot in determining what the issue is with the caps.

    A CCI #11 cap will have an inside diameter of 0.166".

    I'm from Missouri. I would need to be shown that the #11 CCI cap was too large. Did the cap look like a little cup? Did it have flanges to look like it was a small brimmed cap?
     
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  10. Aug 24, 2019 #30

    hawkeye2

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    Bang did you mean to say 5/16-24?

    Anyway #11 caps will do the job and may be easier to find, just not traditional. That is a musket cap nipple, no doubt of that and the only reason I can come up with for the cap falling off at the LGS is this:
    The clerk didn't know much (anything?) :( about percussion caps and possibly muzzleloaders too (not at all uncommon) and picked up a musket cap. Could he have thought all caps are #11s? Possibly. Of course somebody else could have dropped some musket caps in a #11 tin too. It may have been loose as the nipple, which I'm sure is original to the gun, was so poorly shaped and sized that the proper cap woudn't fit snugly. At the very best the nipples that come with these guns are useable enough to make it go bang, anything beyond that they qualify to be sent to China to be made into toasters and flatirons. Even with a loose cap you can still shoot it as long as you don't let the cap fall off before you squeeze the trigger and any brand of musket cap will work till you can find some RWS.
     
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  11. Aug 24, 2019 #31

    bang

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    Matter of fact yes. Too late to correct it.
     
  12. Aug 24, 2019 #32

    bang

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    That's 5/16 x 24
     
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  13. Aug 25, 2019 #33

    Rat

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    Well...we could call it a "rifled smoothbore" since all rifles started as smooth bores, before they were rifled.

    I'm guessing that the musket caps he is using do fall off the nipple. Nipple would only have to be slightly under-sized for that to happen. Different brands of caps will fit tighter or looser. On my 1861, Dynamit Nobels will fall off, for sure, if I tip the gun, they are that loose, but CCI's will stay on better, but I usually pinch them a bit.

    When I shot my 1861 a couple of days ago, I took a tin of Dynamits and the first time I capped the rifle, it did indeed fall off, requiring pinching after that.

    Does seem like RWS musket caps fit the best, but I can't seem to find any in my mess of a man-cave at the moment.
     
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  14. Aug 25, 2019 #34

    TFoley

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    Will somebody here please post me an image of a genuine or replica military musket or rifled musket fitted with a #11 nipple? It's just that in over sixty years of shooting BP of all kinds I've never clapped eyes on such an arm that didn't use musket - 'top-hat' - caps.

    TIA.
     
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  15. Aug 25, 2019 #35

    dave_person

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    Hi,
    I have one I restocked years ago. Mirokus are very nice although the stock wood is often pretty poor. I use musket caps. The shallow rifling is historically correct because it was made to shoot hollow-based bullets. The skirt on the bullet makes a solid gas seal in the shallow grooves when fired, whereas it might not seal with deeper rifling. Below are photos of that gun.
    dave

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019
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  16. Aug 25, 2019 #36

    wcubed

    wcubed

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    The #11 looked like a little cup. It did not have flanges. The shop I went to did have some on the shelf with the flanges, but he didn't try any for some reason. Like it has already been said, I don't think the shop owner knows much about percussion.

    Just out of curiosity, how much would the market price be for one of these, considering it also has the sling and bayonet?
     
  17. Aug 25, 2019 #37

    DNS

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    They used to come with two nipples, one for musket caps & one for the smaller no.10 or 11 caps. At least they did 35+ years ago.
     
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  18. Aug 25, 2019 #38

    bang

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    15667426651271375165889.jpg
    Not the original. It had a musket cap nipple on it. I got one for #11 at track of the wolf. They have 5/6 x 24 and 8mm x 1.25.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019
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  19. Aug 25, 2019 #39

    TFoley

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    Thanks. I have a ROA - #11caps - and some P-H rifles -musket caps -but I am totally unable to post images here, so thank you for that.
     
  20. Aug 25, 2019 #40

    Grenadier1758

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    Years ago I bought a Zouave Musket. It was an Italian replica and really quite cheaply built. It did come with two nipples. One was for the musket caps and one was for #11 caps. The caps fit all right. The problem was the through hole in the nipple was way over size. Probably good for firing blanks, but when you shot a minie or a patched round ball, the blowback from the main charge would send the hammer to full cock. As inexperienced as I was at the time, I knew that was not anything good. So I got replacement nipples from either Track of the Wolf or Dixie Gun Works. That solved the cocking on firing issue. My tastes in shooting changed and the Zouave went on the market block.
     
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