My smoothbore

:thumbsup:
Been trying all the advice and comments re working up a load for my 'changeling' . Tried a lot of the suggestions . So far shooting 90 gr. 2F . She seems to like a heavy load . Good grouping. Still working on the distance shots.
Great Day to Shoot/

 

[musketman]

That's half the fun, working up loads and trying new things...

 

If you are still using that .009" or .010" there won't be much lube in it, so perhaps a card wad between the powder and patched ball might help with accuracy and cleanliness of shooting.
: 90gr.(3 1/4 dr.) is a fairly 'heavy' load for a 20 bore shot load, but with RB, it isn't. The 20 bore (.62 calibre) rifles normally used in the vicinity of 4 to 5 drams for hunting in India. That's 109.2gr. to 136.5gr. weight with a 22 or 21 bore ball weighing 318gr.to 333gr. The guys here with ,62 rifles normally use 140gr. for hunting moose. This isn't to say you should be using 140gr., but that the 90gr. charge you are using now, isn't excessive & shoot just fine.

 

Thanks , I'll try the card . You are right about the fouling ...boy does she get dirty!! :thumbsup:

 

[Wes/Tex]

Found Bob Spencer's advice about ball size helpful. He recommended a ball .020" under bore diameter with .017" thick patch. Seems to work well. As a plinking set up he also used to sit the naked ball sprue down on a card wad and push it down on the powder then load a card on top to keep the ball in place. Shoots well enough for plinking and shooting games. Good luck.

 

:thumbsup:

Thanks , you know i think there is a lot of unknowns in this business. Some time past I started setting the ball sprule down . Does it make a difference .. To me it does , hard to explain . It has been a lot of fun getting this gun up and running . The first real test will be this weekend . Major shoot to attend .

:imo:
If it works ,use it .

 

[makanaut]

I load the ball sprue down thinking that the heaviest part of the ball would want to find its way to the rear in flight giving it more stability. Someone may disagree but if nothing else one of the keys to loading is consistency. :m2c:

 

[Wes/Tex]

I saw an illustration of a French paper cartridge in which the ball had the little "tit" left on it from the mold and the paper was tied on to it leaving the naked ball at the end. Guess the paper stayed attached and acted as a "tail"? I can see it now "BOOM"..."WHIZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!" Smokey trail and all! :crackup:

 

We've had this run of thoughts before - ribbons or fishing line screwed to the ball to act as a stabilizer. Years ago, there were articles of this nature for ball as well as stringing buckshot balls together with fishing line for use in shotshells. It's a lot of work, but may work.
; Let us know if you do try something like that. The "French' ctg. having the paper ctg. tied to the sprue is interesting - do you have the picture of this? I've shot a bunch of paper ctgs. and have never had the paper from the ctg. ignite. A cloth patch will sometimes catch fire, but it has to be a severe burnout condition, and then it merely smolders, as cotton does. I saw this once, with a very loose weave cloth.

 

[musketman]

Let us know if you do try something like that. The "French' ctg. having the paper ctg. tied to the sprue is interesting -

The only reference to French cartridges I have shows them not tied...

English ones were tied, so if there is a tied French cartridge, please share it with everyone...

 

[makanaut]

Musketman,
Do you have any dimensions for the cartridge paper and what material do you use? I would love to try this out for my fusil.
Anyone else have experience rolling cartridges? I would appreciate any tips you all have for making them.

 

[Stumpkiller]

The dimensions depend on the caliber. For a Bess or a 12 gauge: (Based on Musketman's image above starting at the base line below the character "1" and going clockwise). 2" then 7", then 6", then 5-3/4". I use onionskin typing paper (have NO idea if that is still available or where). You then need a caliber sized dowel; a really fancy set-up uas a concave spot on one end for the ball. the glue can be flower paste, diluted casine (Elmer's) or even a rub-on glue stick.

Smaller calibers can use smaller paper pieces as long as the dowel is the proper size. I made a plywood template and then set it on a pile of paper and slice out the pieces with a razor knife.

I recall one story that a Preacher handed out hymnals to be used by the Patriots during one battle of the Revolution.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Daryl, I'd have to send a xerox to someone who can put it up on the web right now since I'm having trouble with the scanner and can't get pictures up. Will have to look but think the illustration is in one of the books on the Napoleonic War era on the round with the paper tied to the 'tit' of the ball.

On another post here about making paper cartridges, one of the best I've ever seen did so by rolling the regular tube type seen in most illustrations. What made his different was the preperation. He cast balls .010" and .020" under bore diameter of his muskets (original Besses by the way!). After tying the balls in he dipped the ball end of the cartridge in lube and allowed it to dry. When he went shooting he would start with one of the .010" rounds in a clean barrel. Tear the cartridge, dump the powder, then push the ball end of the cartridge into the muzzle till just the ball was in then tear off the paper and discard it before ramming it down on the powder. After the first shot he loaded only the .020" cartridges but after tearing and pouring the powder, he pushed the whole cartridge in paper tube first (ball end last) before ramming the whole works down the bore. Hey, it worked for him.

 

[musketman]

I would think that rice paper would work just fine as well...

 

[robinghewitt]

The Young Horseman (1644) by John Vernon gives instructions for making Cartrages using "cut lengths of white paper"

The powder end is bitten off, the powder is poured down the barrel followed by the bullet and then "some of that paper will serve for a wad after it and Ram home".

No mention of any string, sounds like all the paper comes out with the smoke :thumbsup:

 

[makanaut]

Wow. Thanks for all the input guys. I cut a 6" piece of 5/8 dowel,concaved one end for the .580 ball and I'm off and rolling. I found blank newsprint at the local craft store(yes they also had onionskin paper) and using your directions made a half dozen cartridges for my 20ga. fusil. I used 95 grains FF Goex. 90 for main plus prime and spillage. Couple more questions if you dont mind. Originally they used nitrided paper correct? I normally load a .580 ball with .018 patch. Since Im not using a patch is accuracy greatly affected? Once I tear off the cartridge tail, pour the powder down the barrel,do I load the rest of the paper and ball and will this create a hazzard (ie. burning cartridge paper on the range)? I ask this because reenactors dont load the paper,right. I shoot a short barreled French fusil (38" barrel). Consistantly groups in a 10" circle at 50yds. Thanks again for all the help and I will post the results if your interested.

 

[musketman]

Nitrated paper will be consumed in the shot, but is best if not used for flintlocks (sparks and all), plain paper will serve as a crude patch, load paper and all...

I read from Daryl and others that shoot paper cartridges more that I, that the paper does not ignite, I have not seen anything to prove otherwise in the ones I shot...

 

I make my ctgs. tapered as there is less spillage when tearing off the powder end with your teeth and it's easier to handle correctly with a pointed end, which is instantly felt and oriented. As well, if used for priming, the smaller spout is much better for this purpose. After the end is torn off, the ripped end is dropped into the bore. By the time the rod is out, the power has drained down the bore and the ball with paper below it, is shoved down onto the powder. The wadded up paper helps keep gasses in check, behind the ball, and to scrub out some of the fouling- perhaps. Wiping lube around the ctg.'s end did help keep fouing softer and less of it.
; With the rest of the ctg. being smaller than the ball's end, there is never a problem with getting it into the barrel, it drops in to almost level with the end of the barrel, and sits there without having to be shoved in at first. 1 sheet of printing paper is good for 4 cartidges for the Bess, containing up to 120gr. powder, whatever is required. They are simple to roll, using a glue stick or a puddle of white glue - dipping one finger into the glue for the joint. Masking tape can also be use- nothing detrimental in doing this. Some people allow the folding of the tail to do all the holding & this seems to work as well. I've carried glued paper ctg.s in my pockets all hunting season without damage to them. In the .69 Rifle, it's pater ctgs. struck the same POI at 100 yards and the same group size as patched balls as well. WW balls work just fine in ctg.s for cheaper, more easily obtained lead, ball:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Makanaut.

DON"T USE NITRATED PAPER FOR FLINTLOCK CARTRIDGES ! ! ! :shocking:

If a spark gets into your belly-box from your, or a neighbors', vent you'll have a very sore underarm and chin from the two-dozen Roman Candles fastened at your waist.

Nitrated paper is for breech-loading arms like the early Sharps and for percussion revolvers.

 

[RussB]

"the glue can be flower paste, diluted casine (Elmer's) or even a rub-on glue stick."

Stumpy....Being very new to this, my experiments have been somewhat limited, but I have found, beyond a doubt, that a thin flour / water paste mix, works best for the "Shot-Capsules" that I have had some success with. The paper seems to make a great OP wad when loaded as suggested, and a shot card seems to keep the shot from falling out. I feel sure I'm busting the paper capsule seal when I seat the load....I "think" this may be desireable.

Help me out here....will the forward movement, from a load at rest, be great enough to tear the paper loose from the shot capsule and permit spreading? Or, do I need to insure that capsule is broke before I seat the OS card?
I guess the real question, for me is...can you ever control this?
I have had a few loads, when using Elmers glue, that paterned at about 14" / 16" and were somewhat oblong, at twenty five yards....good news? bad news? I don't know. I do know I can't shoot well enough to use that kind of pattern.
I "think" someone proficient with this may be able to control the pattern by using different glue, or paper, or something.
I also realize you are talking about roundball here, and I don't want to take away from that, maybe you can kinda slide this in under "other"???

Russ