My 50 caliber rifle...is not a 50 caliber rifle

[hanshi]

Amen, Bro. Stated 'calibers' are only approximate suggestions.

Yes! My .62/20ga smoothbore is tighter than that figure implies. A .600" ball goes down easy with a thin patch but a .606" ball with that same thin patch has to be driven down. The .606" does work for a bare ball load however.

 

[Cattywompuss]

I feel like the 18th C. gun situation might be informed by this. It is known that a rifle often came with a mould for the gun and they were intended to stick together because caliber was less important than having the actual bullet mould made by the Smith for that gun. And a lot of folks infer that they(18th c.. riflemen)used a looser fit patch and ball than we use today.

But we don't know how well the mould was made for a particular gun, nor what actual size the balls were for guns that lack their mould today. So it is hard to figure whether their LRBs were a tight fit or not. They didn't have the luxury of ordering the balls a few thousandsths apart to test.

 

[Notchy Bob]

Regarding choked rifle barrels, Walter Cline indicated the small amount of choke occurred as a result of wear on the hickory backing of the "long bit" that was used in smoothing out the bore of a hand forged barrel (see The Muzzle Loading Rifle Then and Now, Chapter 2, "Making the Barrels"). The end result might be a tapered bore, or a small amount of choke nearer the muzzle, as cutting was always done from breech to muzzle. This suggests that the choke or taper was put in the bore before the grooves were cut, and that the taper or choke may have initially been unintentional. However, Bill Large was known to have put some intentional taper in his bores, and original Hawken barrels were said to have a small amount of choke, which leads me to believe it was left there on purpose. Robert Hoyt and Charles Burton can both make taper-bored barrels, and I have a Hawken fullstock with a Hoyt barrel with a tapered bore. It is my understanding that the GRRW barrels ended up with some choke because of the machinery they were using. This was evidently unintentional at first, but they then realized that the old-time riflemakers appreciated some choke in the bore, so they elected to capitalize on it. If GRRW barrels are shortened, they should be cut off at the breech end, and rethreaded for the breech plug. Cutting off the muzzle will eliminate the choke.

I think the advantage of a tapered or choked bore is that the ball is easier to seat, once you get it started.

Getting back to the original point of this thread, I believe barrels of the same nominal caliber might vary slightly in bore size from one to the next. I think it's a good idea to invest in several different sizes of balls for developing a load for a new rifle. I bought those .520" balls that I have because they were old stock and slightly oxidized, and sold at a ridiculously low price. However, I was mighty glad I had them the other day, when I was out with my new rifle.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[akroguy]

My Pedersoli Kentucky .50 is also a .49'ish rifle. Stuffing a .490 with .017 pillow ticking down the bore was pure misery. I now load a .480/.010 that starts super easy (coned it too....thanks Joe Wood!) gets a bit tighter about six inches down then goes smoothly the rest of the way down to the annoyingly tiny patent breech. Yeah...2F bridges down there if I don't smack the rifle a good one after pouring the charge. But, that's another topic.

I used to assume a certain advertised caliber needs a certain ball but it's just not so. The proof is in the pudding....or patching.

 

[GoodRabbitPilgrim]

Who's to say it's the gun?

Have you ever weighed a batch of round balls and seen the variation? Have you ever checked the thickness of the patches you buy? Both can vary a lot from what the packet says.

 

[Woody Morgan]

Who's to say it's the gun?

Have you ever weighed a batch of round balls and seen the variation? Have you ever checked the thickness of the patches you buy? Both can vary a lot from what the packet says.

Sure. Part of the fun.

wm

 

[GrandLakeHunter]

I have a Thompson Center Hawken, .50 caliber that is almost impossible to load a .495 ball with the thinnest patch material and wettest lube I can find. A .490 ball loads just fine though.

That is primarily because finding strong patch material the thickness of copy paper isn't going to happen. TC clearly states to use .490" balls.

 

[user 49399]

That is primarily because finding strong patch material the thickness of copy paper isn't going to happen. TC clearly states to use .490" balls.

Yes, that is true. I found that out by reading a TC manual years after I bought the gun. Some of us are slow learners

 

[Grenadier1758]

Yes, @Banjoman, when all else fails, its time to read the instruction manual.

It is true that there are instances where some experimentation is in order when developing a load. However in the case of the T/C manual, ignore the part of using Bore Butter to "season" the barrel. The "seasoning" will do little more than clog up the grooves and destroy accuracy on target leading to the claim that round balls skip over the grooves in T/C's 1 in 48" twist.

 

[user 49399]

Yes, @Banjoman, when all else fails, its time to read the instruction manual.

It is true that there are instances where some experimentation is in order when developing a load. However in the case of the T/C manual, ignore the part of using Bore Butter to "season" the barrel. The "seasoning" will do little more than clog up the grooves and destroy accuracy on target leading to the claim that round balls skip over the grooves in T/C's 1 in 48" twist.

Yep. Never used bore butter, never will.

 

[beardedhorse]

I have a Bill Large barrel that is choked. It takes a round ball in the .520's and not ..530, He sold his machinery to Green River River Works who also choked their rifle barrels. A recent acquisition, a Tulle Fusil de Chasse measured .60 caliber and shoots a .589 o.k. Probably better when I put a rear sight on it. Stewart, you are missed here in Colorado.

 

[Crowtalks]

Who's to say it's the gun?

Have you ever weighed a batch of round balls and seen the variation? Have you ever checked the thickness of the patches you buy? Both can vary a lot from what the packet says.

I say its the gun.

I tried several 490 balls and several patches (all miked 018) without success. I then tried different 490 balls with 010 ticking and was able to barely get one to seat.

After I got back to the man cave, I miked the barrel and it miked at 490. The next day I took it to my Inlaws house and he checked it with his micrometer with the same results...

480 balls and 010 tick works fine.

50 cal sabots will go in naked but the 429 or 430 (44 cal) bullets will not even think about seating with the sabots...416s will fine, though...

Jim