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" My point, as I said in my first post, is that highly figured wood is ALWAYS the first thing you notice about a custom rifle with, well, nicely figured wood. That's the whole point, is it not?"

Not at all. the first thing I look for is what is there in this gun that makes it what it is being called a representation of, grade of wood is at about the bottom of the list, I personaly see mLs as a piece of the last and look for how well these current offering fit in with the originals, what I see as a problem is that far to many just look at the purdy wood and stop there with no interst to learn or understanding of what they should be seeing in a 1770 Lancaster by Dickert, not that all should be history students but once we start tossing around very specific types and styles of guns there really should be something there to substantiate the use of the terminology, and bringing up any shortcommings in any given gun with this in mind does not have to be a slam but a learning experience for others who may want to have a closer representation of a given type of style but without any proper critique they will not know what to look for,this is a very tricky task to get a wellmade gun with the traits it should have to fit a style/type as even many high dollar builders will cut corners and tweak history to make standard parts stretch history to their liking, folks shouild be gratefull that ythere are a few here who will share their knowledge of the originals for comparative reasons and not get so upset if they are told that their gun has flaws from that perspective, it does not lessen the usability of the gun it only puts it in the correct perspective compared to the original not making it bad just different, and one thing that does not help theoverall enlightenment of newcommers is for those who have only held or fired one brand /style of gun calling it one of the best offerings avaliable such glowing kudos should fall to those who have actually used quite a few different styles and brands or gunsIMHO,Mike and others comments could make a big difference in whether one gets a very well made representation of an 18th century gun or a nice gun with purdy wood nothing wrong with the latter but if one wants the former the right information must be had, and again how can anyone claim so and so makes fine guns when they have nothing else to compare with as far as gun quality?It is entirely defensive posturing when none is needed nor is it needed to over praise any gun when not having the experience to make such a judgement, some will learn, some are not capable, some choose not to. I just suggest that when valuble hard to find information is there soak it up like a sponge, if it is of no interest find another thread that deals with topics that are not about learning about anything.
 
"respond and your response here has been unimpressive to anyone who reads it. I wouldn't buy one of your rifles today if it was a fraction of what it should cost, strictly because I think your attitude sucks. You've somehow taken a thread about TVM and made it about you. Which suggests all sorts of unflattering things about your character"

Whew..that much hot air needs a lead box to keep it from burning some innocent bystander, no doubt it was based on 40+ years of experience though :hmm: no doubt a Rebel without a clue.
 
Maybe all you experts should get together and use your vast knowledge to publish an approved makers list for those of us who don't have a clue. That way people could purchase a gun that didn't offend your sensibilities. You could educate people on where to go for a certain style/time period.
For those of us, who for one reason or another, do not purchase from one of the approved makers can have a sub forum to show our guns. That way you could avoid having to look at them. You wouldn't have to comment on or be offended by them. The sub forum could be titled in such a way that newbies could be warned that they are not to be considered HC/PC in any way.
If anyone post a pic of their gun outside of the sub forum, then they would be fair game for all comments.

PS: CraigC, your hot air is a breath of fresh air to me.
 
Maybe all you experts should get together and use your vast knowledge to publish an approved makers list for those of us who don't have a clue.
GREAT IDEA! :applause: How soon do you want it? Think we should make it a sticky? :hmm:
 
tg said:
Whew..that much hot air needs a lead box to keep it from burning some innocent bystander, no doubt it was based on 40+ years of experience though :hmm: no doubt a Rebel without a clue.
I reckon somebody must've assumed that because I only have a handful of posts on this forum that I just fell off the turnip truck yesterday. I have dealt with several of the country's finest pistolsmith's, visited their shops and drank their coffee. I've spent some time on the phone with the nation's preeminent revolversmith, Hamilton Bowen. I have NEVER experienced such condescending elitist attitudes as I have here. I would suggest the next time you're in east Tennessee you look up Bowen and visit his shop. Maybe he can offer you a lesson in humility and customer service.

You might have some wisdom to share but if it gets lost in the delivery, it's meaningless.


Mike Brooks said:
That's the box you get put in here when you try to teach.
Yes, now you're the victim.


Mike Brooks said:
The point is, it's really difficult to have these sorts of guns shoved in your face as the end all of custom guns.
Where exactly is this happening?


Mike Brooks said:
Some of the most outstanding guns I have seen lately were made from straight grain maple, not a curl in sight.
That is fine. Personally, if I'm paying for a custom gun I want upgraded wood but not everybody likes that sort of thing. Some folks are snobs about being plain.


Mike Brooks said:
By the way, what's your name, I want to make sure you don't try sneaking on my list one day....
Believe me, there is no danger of that happening.


Mike Brooks said:
More like "Spewing wisdom is fruitless if people aren't educated enough to know what you're talking about."
Yeah, that's it. :shake:
 
"Think we should make it a sticky?'

probably a waste of space I think that the whole concept of showing the difference twixt the historicaly correct offerings and the others is lost on most as it is always taken as an assault rayther than a chance to learn something about gun history the defensive mechanisims are automatic even when they are not needed, explaoning why one gun is more correct from a historical standpoint than others is just a way of passing information for comparitive value but is often taken as an attack when that is not the case, there is no reason to try and defend somethiong that has not been "attacked" as such but just put in perspective alongside other items to show the differences that most would not recognize, if one is not interested in this historical comparison they do not have to read the information, no one has said that these less than historical guns are bad guns or complete junk for the most part, I think many who have guns that are in the less PC/HC list are really over sensitive in their responses many times, but the infrmation will give many the chance to make a well informed choice if they do have a strong interest in having a gun as close to the originals as is possible in todays offerings, and again so much of the rhetoric comes from an obvious lack of experience in knowing/understanding the differences, one simply cannot give an adequate critique of a gun or anything else if they have only one example to draw from and absolutely no comparitive pieces from which to draw.It has come to the point that if one uses the term "historical" and "longrifle" in the same sentence all Hell breaks loose and the shields go up and any attempt to discuss the guns fom a comparitive nature is lost in the winds of attitude and defensive posturing, it is understood that many do not care but many do care and the information is for their benifit, some may not like the tone of the delivery but it has been the same from both sides on most occasions with the less historical acurate side often resorting to non factual, emotional, speculative tactics to try and spin something into history and no one benifits from this, noyt everyone has or wants/needs a highly HC/HC gun and this should just be accepted as part of life as we discuss the differences between the two "schools" without a lot of attacks that have no bearing on the issue, but some do not handle ignorant/inaccurate comments as well as others and verbal duels are the usual result and some have a sarcastic nature in their presentation, all this need be ignored in order to get to the meat on the bone so to speak butas people it is unlikley that this will be embraced universaly, our nature is to defend what we have any contradicting facts be damned.
The Goose that lays the Golden Egg of ML historical knowledge is given here regularly but most often the eggs are tossed out the window and the Goose is roasted.
 
TG, you and Brooks constantly complain about how ignorant and unaware the members are here. Why do you guys stay? Why do you continue to subject yourselves to such ignorance? Why not go where the "experts" are so you can feel at home?

Could it be that as inept and ignorant as we all are, this is the only audience you guys can find to share your "expertise"? I think you guys have something similar to "batted woman syndrome". You keep getting beat up, but yet you can't bring yourselves to leave. Why? :hmm:
 
I, for one hope they stay! Learning is never a bad thing. The last time I knew everything was over forty years ago, and have been trying to fill in the gaps ever since.
Robby
 
Robby said:
I, for one hope they stay! Learning is never a bad thing. The last time I knew everything was over forty years ago, and have been trying to fill in the gaps ever since.
Look at the first response to Roundball's post -

Mike Brooks said:
Cool, you're OCD just like me. First it was T/C and now it's TVM.
In all seriousness, and it's none of my business, but I'm curious as to what you paid for each of those, so we can have some sort of comparison as to what you pay and what you get. I'm not trying to get under your skin, just want to have an open educational discussion.
Read: "So I can compare those factory guns to customs."

Because we all need that lesson?
 
I also do not wish anyone to leave.
tg is it possible that sometimes when the goose delivers the golden egg it is covered with so much manure that the egg is hard to see?
Knowledge, offered with an open hand and respect, is well received. Knowledge, offered on the end of a manure stick, is most often ignored. One gets tired of dodging the stick just to get the knowledge.
If the goose gets roasted, it may not be the quality of the eggs. It could be all the honking and biting the goose gives to the person trying to get to the egg.
 
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