Muzzleloading ... don't let THIS happen to YOU!

[sturmkatze]

Okay, for once, it really came up with a search on the fb group.

https://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/f...-answer-as-to-evapo-rust-and-springs-breaking

 

[OhioHawkeye]

Thanks for the link. Welcoome to Ohio today. I happen to have migrated here a couple weeks ago. Will migrate back south in a couple weeks....... I want to hear more of the molasses... I know sugar (molasses is made from cane sugar, cane sugar is a natural preservative for food just like honey...) I've never heard of using molasses as a rust remover/preventer.

 

[SDSmlf]

Okay, for once, it really came up with a search on the fb group.

https://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/f...-answer-as-to-evapo-rust-and-springs-breaking

Definitely not a controlled test of any type, just an observation of some uncontrolled old rusty spring samples in EvapoRust. Unless there is a real test or study, not just someone’s comments on the internet with an old box of rusty tools they are looking for spare parts for so they can try to salvage them, nothing to see here.

From the referenced post:
Nov 1, 2017
A week or so ago i bought a wooden machinist chest with some tooling off of craigslist. The chest came with 11 spring type calipers (Starrett, B&S) and some other stuff. After soaking the calipers in evapo rust, four of the eleven came out of the bath with broken springs. I suspect they had some stress cracks and as the potion did it's magic it induced the failures. Anyway, does anyone know of a source for springs? I hate to throw these out and would like to repair them.

 

[Eutycus]

Gives it that "aged look"!

 

[OhioHawkeye]

and no. eveporust would leave a black finish behind.... not a desirable effect. I love the fact the OP just gave it a quick clean , oil, grease, and continued to shoot the next day. That's the best solution.

I found a coupule interesting thread previously on how molasses might work on the iron oxide.
One by Cattywompuss says ".... it's a chelation agent, of which molasses is a fantastically cheap source."
in the other, TNBandit says "Phosphoric acid. The same stuff that's in Coca Cola."
all this makes me conclude that the reason it is suggested feed store source for the molasses is that the molasses there have been treated (yes phosporic acid) for silage preservation. Thus, it would no be the molasses being the active ingrdient.......

OK, so my inner vulcan is showing.

 

[Brokennock]

I've never had Evaporust leave any added color behind. Just a lack of rust, including bluing being removed. Even used it on a cast iron baking mold, it worked great, cleaned it well afterwards, not too concerned due to ot being nontoxic, reseasoned and the mold is fantastic again.

 

[sturmkatze]

Definitely not a controlled test of any type, just an observation of some uncontrolled old rusty spring samples in EvapoRust. Unless there is a real test or study, not just someone’s comments on the internet with an old box of rusty tools they are looking for spare parts for so they can try to salvage them, nothing to see here.

From the referenced post:
Nov 1, 2017
A week or so ago i bought a wooden machinist chest with some tooling off of craigslist. The chest came with 11 spring type calipers (Starrett, B&S) and some other stuff. After soaking the calipers in evapo rust, four of the eleven came out of the bath with broken springs. I suspect they had some stress cracks and as the potion did it's magic it induced the failures. Anyway, does anyone know of a source for springs? I hate to throw these out and would like to repair them.

Listen to you. I am telling you that this happened. As I mentioned it, I was sent this link. I do not care if you like it. You can the one who asked. Why not hit the "ignore" so that you don't see anything I post anymore. I do that to Arsch mit Ohren here all the time.

 

[sturmkatze]

and no. eveporust would leave a black finish behind.... not a desirable effect. I love the fact the OP just gave it a quick clean , oil, grease, and continued to shoot the next day. That's the best solution.

I found a coupule interesting thread previously on how molasses might work on the iron oxide.
One by Cattywompuss says ".... it's a chelation agent, of which molasses is a fantastically cheap source."
in the other, TNBandit says "Phosphoric acid. The same stuff that's in Coca Cola."
all this makes me conclude that the reason it is suggested feed store source for the molasses is that the molasses there have been treated (yes phosporic acid) for silage preservation. Thus, it would no be the molasses being the active ingrdient.......

OK, so my inner vulcan is showing.

Evaporust leaves the metal silver/grey, so my guess is that you've never used evaporust and were assuming it's like the rust converters you get from J. C. Whitney? My, cranky I am after work.

 

[sturmkatze]

Thanks for the link. Welcoome to Ohio today. I happen to have migrated here a couple weeks ago. Will migrate back south in a couple weeks....... I want to hear more of the molasses... I know sugar (molasses is made from cane sugar, cane sugar is a natural preservative for food just like honey...) I've never heard of using molasses as a rust remover/preventer.

Through rain and sleet and dark of night -- mostly dark of night. I go there and come home. Parts of Ohio are beautiful. In going again today and tomorrow. A good 4½ hour trip each way.

 

[SDSmlf]

Listen to you. I am telling you that this happened. As I mentioned it, I was sent this link. I do not care if you like it. You can the one who asked. Why not hit the "ignore" so that you don't see anything I post anymore. I do that to Arsch mit Ohren here all the time.

My apologies that I offended you. I just expected more than a link to someone looking for replacement parts when when you said you had a real study about the risks of using EvapoRust. Apparently I read what you said rather than what you meant. Again my apologies.

a guy sent me a nice link to a real study that shows this. Do NOT dunk a lock in evaporust.

 

[sturmkatze]

My apologies that I offended you. I just expected more than a link to someone looking for replacement parts when when you said you had a real study about the risks of using EvapoRust. Apparently I read what you said rather than what you meant. Again my apologies.

Real enough. Go ahead and dunk your lock in it. I had 1 or 2 others say the same when I posted. I've been using evaporust for years on armor. Little did I know. I'm letting others use my experience so they don't get burned. I could say the sky is blue on this forum and people would argue. Disheartening.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

I love the fact the OP just gave it a quick clean , oil, grease, and continued to shoot the next day.

Nope ... did NOT even clean it nor wipe it off. Yes, sprayed all moving parts with a good lube I trust ... loaded and shot ... all done as a test!

Worked perfectly! 100% ignition! Not that I recommend the practice above. LOL! All resolved now !

 

[Brokennock]

Real enough. Go ahead and dunk your lock in it. I had 1 or 2 others say the same when I posted. I've been using evaporust for years on armor. Little did I know. I'm letting others use my experience so they don't get burned. I could say the sky is blue on this forum and people would argue. Disheartening.

Listen to you. I am telling you that this happened. As I mentioned it, I was sent this link. I do not care if you like it. You can the one who asked. Why not hit the "ignore" so that you don't see anything I post anymore. I do that to Arsch mit Ohren here all the time.

boo hoo.

Look. No one denied what you said happened. We asked for the "real study," you said you had.

guy sent me a nice link to a real study that shows this.

Turns out the study wasn't a study, it was more anecdotal evidence. Now your blathering because some of us that were expecting a "real study" are skeptical?

Maybe if you didn't try to come off as the be all end all expert and had shown some humility and acknowledged that there could possibly be other factors involved in those springs breaking, folks wouldn't be making an issue of your claims.

 

[Mad L]

Not needed, thanks ... as I use that special/proprietary 'Big 5 Metal Cleaner' which is like coiled monel, but of a hardness that is softer than barrel steel but harder than rust. Removes ANYTHING needed off of a barrel or whatever and it will not harm the finish. It truly is an amazing product, if one has never tried it!

Yes, I'll need to teardown the lock, but hey... it's likely due for a thorough disassembly, cleaning and re-lubing anyway .

Link = Big 45 Frontier Metal Cleaner | Remove Rust from Gun Bluing and Clean Dirty Gun Bores Easy!

I will 2nd on this one!
My father gave me one he picked up at a gun show in Idaho, I had a Percussion someone gifted to me with bore rust I had fought for a year to clean out (short of ordering fancy, expensive stuffs suggested), tried all grits of steal wool but two days later I run a patch and it came out with rust.
The ball of steel me father had didnt come with instructions, only what my father heard and watched in a demo (he got it for his cast iron skillets - he Loves his skillets!)
I figured my self to cut a piece, wrap it on a copper bore brush, and Pumped til my arm got sore, cleaned out as usual - No More Rusty Pads!

Thanks for posting this, now I know what it is and where to get should I need another!
I might be tough to work however on the innards of a lock. Worth a try...

 

[French Colonial]

The idea that a liquid chemical could penetrate any piece of steel to the extent that it could change the temper, structure whatever to the extent it could make it softer or more brittle seems to defy common sense. Assuming room temperature no added heat source.

Does anyone know of anything that is not a strong acid that would do that?

 

[sturmkatze]

The idea that a liquid chemical could penetrate any piece of steel to the extent that it could change the temper, structure whatever to the extent it could make it softer or more brittle seems to defy common sense. Assuming room temperature no added heat source.

Does anyone know of anything that is not a strong acid that would do that?

It isn't harmful. So it isn't a "strong acid". and, I am telling you that it happened. I threw away the plastic container, somewhere here, I have the spring pieces. Please, but all means, go ahead and put an assembled lock in there. Or the springs. I'm just a stupid dumb-ass truck driver and web person. Go ahead on.

 

[frankie]

Wow, big OOPSIE on my part ...

Shot the other day, cleaned the lock .... where I usually set it on a nearby basement forced hot air duct to dry, at least in heating season. But since it was 95-degrees out the other day and the duct was blowing cool air, I set it outside on a gorgeous sunny day, sitting on a bright stainless steel gas grill cover to dry.

And then I forgot about it ... and it rained ... and it hit 85-today. And here's what you get, haha!

Hey at least I can laugh about it and recover from it easily enough.

View attachment 147004

Flint62 have you ever tried "rust preventative number 2" from brownells?

 

[Brokennock]

It isn't harmful. So it isn't a "strong acid". and, I am telling you that it happened. I threw away the plastic container, somewhere here, I have the spring pieces. Please, but all means, go ahead and put an assembled kick in there. Or the springs. I'm just a stupid dumb-ass truck driver and web person. Go ahead on.

No one denied it happened. No one called you a "dumb-ass."

A few of use took your mention of a "study" as something that proved that it was Evaporust is specifically what caused the spring failure and, more importantly, why/how it caused that failure.

What you provided doesn't satisfy that. It doesn't stand to reason that so many have used Evaporust successfully on many other things with no issues, but the stuff somehow destroys the integrity of forged springs.
If I had a spare a few spare springs, I would try to recreate the failure myself.

 

[French Colonial]

It isn't harmful. So it isn't a "strong acid". and, I am telling you that it happened. I threw away the plastic container, somewhere here, I have the spring pieces. Please, but all means, go ahead and put an assembled kick in there. Or the springs. I'm just a stupid dumb-ass truck driver and web person. Go ahead on.

And I am not saying it did not happen...

I know there are a several people who frequent this forum who have metallurgical backgrounds that could answer if it is possible.

Evaporust is water, a chelating agent and a detergent according to the SDS sheet, I don't know enough about chelating agents to give a definitive answer but water and detergent will not be the culprit.

I know it is hard to penetrate steel even with heat such as when trying to case harden, usually it is only to a very small depth, what I am saying is that it is hard to envision how this product could penetrate deep enough to weaken or cause a piece of steel to become brittle.

But I have been wrong before... just ask my wife.

 

[OhioHawkeye]

Through rain and sleet and dark of night -- mostly dark of night. I go there and come home. Parts of Ohio are beautiful. In going again today and tomorrow. A good 4½ hour trip each way.

yea, me too..l and in my case evaporust did cause a dark grey....I guess one could call it silver... but i'll never use it again or recommend it for other reasons so a mute point