Musket replicas with non-drilled vent tubes

[bud in pa]

I remember discussions about DOM tubing barrels. Some condemned them, some praised them. There are people who shoot original firearms over 150 years old without a worry. My rebuttal to those who condemned DOM tubing was, at least it is steel. Original barrels were made out of iron with a forge welded seam running from top to bottom! If I could afford it my smoothbore would have Rice barrel which I think is made out of 4140 steel. the smoothie that I do have I have no idea who made the barrel, but after 10 or so years of shooting it I have no worries.

 

[Springerpanhead]

I understand perfectly, Sir.

It's the same with my live-steam locomotives - every time I fire them up, the boiler is tested, the safety valves are tested and the pressure and water gauges are tested....the little blue loco is H0 scale, just for comparison.

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Live steam ROCKS !!!!!

 

[Loyalist Dave]

The problem with Indian made guns isn’t so much their steels, its the owner/user of them that doesn’t take proper care and precaution when using them.

Well this is the problem with ANY of the muskets in question, and the fallacy Americans have in misunderstanding what "proofing" actually does.

I have been reenacting with Black Powder muzzle loaders for more than three decades, and I have been shooting BP muzzle loaders for 45 years.
Now I've seen countless inspections of muskets at reenactments, both ACW rifled muskets and smoothbore muskets, all repros. Some were Italian and proofed, and some were Japanese or India origin, and not. They were ALL checked for cleanliness, proper half cock positions, flash protectors, and hammer stalls..., but none, NONE were ever bore scoped to look for neglect. Just because that musket is nice and clean on the outside, and rust free, doesn't mean that pitting hasn't resulted from lack of care or improper care inside the barrel, and the barrel has become compromised. The Italian barrels have no immunity from this.

Yet when I point this out, I can tell the diehard Pedersoli owners, as they become quite upset when I point out that operator error is the same risk since it has nothing to do with which musket the person is wielding, and Indian, Japanese, or Italian, IF the musket isn't Indian, it's as likely to be forty years old as it is likely to be new..., and not even proofing can shield the barrel from years of neglect. The assumption that many have of, "The musket is fine, it looks clean and it's a Pedersoli", is sophistry.

LD

 

[Billy Boy]

Are these supposed to just have the vent tube drilled when you receive it, and it is then a usable weapon? How hard is it to drill the vent tube?

Mayhaps they don’t want you to shoot it....is theoverall quality and workmanship up to snuff?

 

[bjarard]

Well this is the problem with ANY of the muskets in question, and the fallacy Americans have in misunderstanding what "proofing" actually does.

I have been reenacting with Black Powder muzzle loaders for more than three decades, and I have been shooting BP muzzle loaders for 45 years.
Now I've seen countless inspections of muskets at reenactments, both ACW rifled muskets and smoothbore muskets, all repros. Some were Italian and proofed, and some were Japanese or India origin, and not. They were ALL checked for cleanliness, proper half cock positions, flash protectors, and hammer stalls..., but none, NONE were ever bore scoped to look for neglect. Just because that musket is nice and clean on the outside, and rust free, doesn't mean that pitting hasn't resulted from lack of care or improper care inside the barrel, and the barrel has become compromised. The Italian barrels have no immunity from this.

Yet when I point this out, I can tell the diehard Pedersoli owners, as they become quite upset when I point out that operator error is the same risk since it has nothing to do with which musket the person is wielding, and Indian, Japanese, or Italian, IF the musket isn't Indian, it's as likely to be forty years old as it is likely to be new..., and not even proofing can shield the barrel from years of neglect. The assumption that many have of, "The musket is fine, it looks clean and it's a Pedersoli", is sophistry.

LD

Aye Aye to that. I shoot a Navy Arms Charleville made in '76. It was take very good care of and sparks like a sparkler and shoots live rounds even better. I don't have any opinion on whether Indian arms are safe to shoot live rounds as I haven't seen that...but what I have seen is that they frequently have issues not sparking more consistently than the Italian or Japanese models. Others may have different experiences.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Aye Aye to that. I shoot a Navy Arms Charleville made in '76. It was take very good care of and sparks like a sparkler and shoots live rounds even better. I don't have any opinion on whether Indian arms are safe to shoot live rounds as I haven't seen that...but what I have seen is that they frequently have issues not sparking more consistently than the Italian or Japanese models. Others may have different experiences.

Yeah that's not uncommon. I've had good success with my muskets from Loyalist Arms, but I have redone several frizzens on other brands. I've found on two occasions when I didn't have any Kasenit compound, that simple heating and requenching restored sparking.

LD

 

[FlinterNick]

Well this is the problem with ANY of the muskets in question, and the fallacy Americans have in misunderstanding what "proofing" actually does.

I have been reenacting with Black Powder muzzle loaders for more than three decades, and I have been shooting BP muzzle loaders for 45 years.
Now I've seen countless inspections of muskets at reenactments, both ACW rifled muskets and smoothbore muskets, all repros. Some were Italian and proofed, and some were Japanese or India origin, and not. They were ALL checked for cleanliness, proper half cock positions, flash protectors, and hammer stalls..., but none, NONE were ever bore scoped to look for neglect. Just because that musket is nice and clean on the outside, and rust free, doesn't mean that pitting hasn't resulted from lack of care or improper care inside the barrel, and the barrel has become compromised. The Italian barrels have no immunity from this.

Yet when I point this out, I can tell the diehard Pedersoli owners, as they become quite upset when I point out that operator error is the same risk since it has nothing to do with which musket the person is wielding, and Indian, Japanese, or Italian, IF the musket isn't Indian, it's as likely to be forty years old as it is likely to be new..., and not even proofing can shield the barrel from years of neglect. The assumption that many have of, "The musket is fine, it looks clean and it's a Pedersoli", is sophistry.

LD

TRUE THAT DAVE !

I just won a bicentennial pedersloli bess (Welsh Fusiliers Special Edition).

Took apart the gun for inspection, unbreeched the barrel to find an exposed thread in the barrel And some what I would call minor pitting in the breech area. When reinstalled the breech plug turned about 1/2 a MM past the witness mark, so I’m guessing the builder, whether it was Dixie Gun Works of Navy Arms didn’t turn the breech plug one more revolution to avoid it hitting the touch hole area, some gunsmiths are advocates of ’notching‘ a breech plug and some are not. I was told its fine by a few gunsmiths but my instinct is always safety first.

I sent the barrel off to Bobby Hoyt To run through his lathe to clean out the pitting and do something about the breech plug being slightly too short.

 

[FlinterNick]

Yeah that's not uncommon. I've had good success with my muskets from Loyalist Arms, but I have redone several frizzens on other brands. I've found on two occasions when I didn't have any Kasenit compound, that simple heating and requenching restored sparking.

LD

I ran out of Kasenite about five years ago. I use bone charcoal mixed in with the cheaper case hardening compound by Track of the Wolf, I get nice results from that.

 

[Irishmusket]

I would like to mention one other Fact The Indians have making fire arms for over 400 years These muskets are built in the same as they did in the day they are mostly hand built like back 1700s That makes for very interesting muskets

 

[Rudyard]

Despite primitive conditions the Indian gun makers can turn out work of the highest quality .But between the artizans and the end user is the middle man out for every picesa he can get .So it seemed normal for them to tell the actual skilled workers that the customer won't pay a good price & they must make them cheaper ( Brilliant sample .Shoddy run of product often results) net result quik profit and unhappy buyer. & Devil take the hindermost . I was there in India trying to get stuff made even sat with the makers adding suggestions re the finnish & "Same to Same, Original "ect had them make a variety of locks "The flint type locks " as they put it even wheellocks.This was .This was 1973 & following years I was after old double rifles & falling blocks ect .It was an interesting experience & I once took tea with three Maharajahs in a day .But I was allways under capitalised . Plus the deviousness & the" Red tape system' as they put it ( I vividly I remember piles of old documents moulding into the earth but all bound with literally red tape ).. "Youth was cheap where fore we sold it" ," Gold was good we hoped to hold it, And today we know the fullness of our gain " from Kiplings ' Christmas in India' . So don't knock the artizans. Few of you could turn out as good in the primitive conditions they put up with .
Rudyard

 

[German-Tailor]

Does this mean that the Prussian flintlock pistol I got from Military Heritage in Canada is a piece of junk ? I've bought a couple of their muskets before with great satisfaction. I just got the pistol and haven't done anything to it yet. It looks great and has excellent spark. Should I just sell it ? If so, where and how ?

 

[Grenadier1758]

The touch hole is not drilled so that the manufacturer can sell the pistol as a non firing replica and avoid the regulations to proof and export a firearm. The claim is made that these are built to the same specifications as if it was made to be fired. However functional safety becomes the responsibility of the person who drills the touch hole.

Your pistol is not junk. Many have functioned safely and those that have been proofed in a CIP European proof house have passed.

The decision and responsibility of drilling the touch hole are yours.

 

[German-Tailor]

Very good. Thank you.

 

[Artificer]

I would engrave ' Crown GR 'if decent &' Dublin Castle' if so so but if rough they got' Rappa Forge' or Maybe' Liberty or Deth ' .

LOL! Yeah, I got it.

Gus

 

[Leadball loader]

Does this mean that the Prussian flintlock pistol I got from Military Heritage in Canada is a piece of junk ? I've bought a couple of their muskets before with great satisfaction. I just got the pistol and haven't done anything to it yet. It looks great and has excellent spark. Should I just sell it ? If so, where and how ? View attachment 90041

 

[Leadball loader]

My Access Heritage French 1733 .60 Cavalry Pistol and target from two hours ago.
Pistol has been worked on to make it function properly. I have six guns from A H and all are very shootable after some adjustments to improve function.
LBL

 

[German-Tailor]

Thank you for the information. If you'd like this one, contact me. Don't need it, and don't want to take the chance.

 

[brazosland]

I’ll take it!

 

[German-Tailor]

How do we do this ? How do I send you my info ? I don't want to break any rules.

 

[Woody Morgan]

Click on "brazosland"'s username and choose Start Conversation.

wm