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musket nipple on tc hawken

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richard123

32 Cal.
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I'm sure this has been covered here in the past, but I recently acquired an early 90's TC Hawken in 54 cal. for a good price. It has some minor dents and dings but a shiny bore. The nipple looked a bit beat up- possible from the previous owner dry-firing it. I went ahead an ordered a new nipple from RMC but I must have ordered wrong because they sent me a Musket-nipple for the TC instead. Fortunately I found 2 cans of CCI musket caps from a local gun dealer. My question is this, I know musket caps burn hotter than standard caps, but are there any other advantages?
 
The hotter flash is better at igniting the synthetic muzzleloading powders.
I guess that could be an advantage but if you are using real black powder, this 'benefit' isn't worth changing the nipple.

On the other hand, Musket caps usually are harder to find than regular #11 caps and they cost more.

I'd hardly call those things an advantage though. :grin:

PS: Dressing up the old battered nipple with a small flat metal cutting file will often fix them so they work as good as new.

Just file off any bulges or displaced material.
 
Yes and no - the "burn" also produces about twice as much hot gas (flame), in volume, compared with a #11 mag cap (about 14 cc's vs about 7 cc's for the mag and 6'ish for regular #10 or 11's).

Now, if you are shooting a "sub" that can mean the difference between "bang" and "no bang".

If you are shooting real black there probably isn't any real advantage with 999 shots out of 1000.

I generally shoot the #11 mag's because I occasionally shoot Pyrodex and want the extra bit of insurance, but when using them with Goex I have never noticed an advantage over regular #11's which I use interchangeably.
 
likely no advantage but, ya have the nipple & the caps so ya might as well use'em. in the meantime ya can see if yer old nipple is salvageable usin' zonie's method. my opinion & yer welcome to it, bubba.
 
bpd303 said:
One advantage with musket caps is the larger size & ease of handling, putting them on or taking them off the nipple (winged caps) especially if wearing gloves.
This reason has had me considering changing to musket caps for awhile now. Especially shooting in the fall in early morning and the fingers don't work as well as they used to. The smaller caps are getting to be a PITA sometimes.
 
When you look at dressing up the battered nipple, inspect the flash hole. You want that hole to be pretty small compared to the hole where the cap sits.

You won't notice it now, but all that volume of hot gas can affect the impact on target.

You will find that shooting these muzzle loading rifles can be a lot of fun. Welcome and get prepared to enjoy the experience.
 
I like the musket caps because of the ease of handling and I do shoot subs, it is hard to fine bp around home here.
 
rich123 said:
I'm sure this has been covered here in the past, but I recently acquired an early 90's TC Hawken in 54 cal. for a good price. It has some minor dents and dings but a shiny bore. The nipple looked a bit beat up- possible from the previous owner dry-firing it. I went ahead an ordered a new nipple from RMC but I must have ordered wrong because they sent me a Musket-nipple for the TC instead. Fortunately I found 2 cans of CCI musket caps from a local gun dealer. My question is this, I know musket caps burn hotter than standard caps, but are there any other advantages?

Is your hammer big enough for musket caps?
 
found 2 cans of CCI musket caps from a local gun dealer. My question is this, I know musket caps burn hotter than standard caps, but are there any other advantages?
Not if you purchased CCI Reenactment Musket Caps. They offer no better ignition than a standard #11 so I found out. If your choice of powder is pure black. I doubt you'll have a problem with those CCI Caps you just purchased. But if intending to try a substitute powder you may encounter a miss fire every now and then with their use. I installed this on my 54 >(Mag-Spark nipple) Was using RWS musket caps prior. Which are hard to find at times. Mag-Spark nipples use a shotguns 209 primer which are considerably easier to find and produce a hotter ignition than the musket cap. Been using Federal 209s on my 54. They will fire up anything I can pour down my rifles barrel. BTW: Consider your next B/P parts purchase from Track of the Wolf. Those fellows seldom make mistakes in/with a customers Order.
 
I rarely shoot any given gun. The breeches are usually full of preservative grease when I get back to them. A musket cap will blast that junk out better than a #11. Even with carefull cleaning before shooting I still have trouble with #11s. Once It fires then I am good to go with #11s. For me, musket caps a lazy way to get 100% ignition.

They are easier to handle than #11s for sure.
 
The ONLY reason to use Musket Caps on a Hawken is to make-up for your LOUSY cleaning job, or worse yet, too much oil residue in the flash channel due to improper storage with the muzzle UP instead of DOWN IMHO!

The greatest accuracy is maintained with the narrowest (a new #11 in this case) nipple's relatively LOW sdv (standard deviation of velocity). As you experiment with hunting charges, the amount of hot pressurized gas escaping from the nipple increases. Just take a gander around the snail to see all of the residue! Some hammers even come off the nipple to the half-cock position! This VARIABLE can make a shotgun pattern out of your target, so tread lightly as far as using a hunting charge in a rifle with Abe Lincoln Caps, since the extra wide hole in the nipple lets HUGE amounts of hot gas spray all over the snail while lifting the hammer off the nipple. The qty of the variable differs with pressure, patch thickness (what level of pressure is needed to start the PRB moving towards the muzzle), barrel length, barrel condition, and nipple condition too (is the old nipple eroded from hot gas burn?).

Dave
 
The musket caps are more expensive and harder to find. They offer no advantage over #11 caps even if you are shooting one of the substitute powders. For the substitutes, just use #11 magnum caps. They are usually the same price as the regular #11 caps. Go ahead and shoot up the musket caps as long as you have them but in the meantime, either repair the old nipple as Zonie said or order a new #11 nipple for your rifle. Then you can shoot the more readily available #11 caps.
 
crockett said:
As stated, the advantage is they are easier to handle.

Easier HOW exactly? I'm not tryin' to be a PITA, but as a VERY experienced percussion shooter, when I go to the firing line to "cap-off", I don't need to waste time so I use a Ted Cash Teardrop Capper with #11's in it. I can apply & ignite THREE caps in as little as 5 seconds with my half-stock Trade Rifle :shocked2: while wearing my TDC Teardrop Capper...
 
Here's a comparison of different nipples:

Flame temperature and gas production of percussion caps
The following data were published in:

Muzzle Blasts, Ralph Lermayer, "Madison Avenue, Congress, and Controversial Ballistics," May 1998, page 42.

CCI Primer And Percussion Cap Chart

[*]#200 Lg Rifle . . . Flame Temperature F° 3024 . . . Gas Volume (cc) 11.68

[*]#250 Lg Rifle Mag . . . Flame Temperature F° 3717 . . . Gas Volume (cc) 11.97

[*]#209 . . . Flame Temperature F° 3024 . . . Gas Volume (cc) 21.98

[*]#10 . . . Flame Temperature F° 3024 . . . Gas Volume (cc) 6.53

[*]#11 . . . Flame Temperature F° 3024 . . . Gas Volume (cc) 6.53

[*]#11 Mag . . . Flame Temperature F° 3024 . . . Gas Volume (cc) 7.59

[*]Musket Cap . . . Flame Temperature F° 3717 . . . Gas Volume (cc) 14.36



Please note that these data for musket caps identified before CCI made changes to "re-enactor's" musket caps.

While I cannot confirm that other cap manufacturers' products offer the same numbers, it is likely that percussion cap data are very close among them.
 
I put a musket nipple on my T/C New Englander.58 and it wouldn't set the pyrodex off ,the same with my T/C .50
 
Will a #11 cap fit on a musket nipple. I have never had anything that shot anything other than #10 or 11 perc. caps, but I recently purchased an investarm .54 hawken style rifle that I decided to shoot yesterday. When I tried to clear the oil by firing a few caps through it the caps barely fit over the top of the nipple, although the top did not look damaged. It took two or three strikes from the hammer for the cap to go down and seat at which time they did fire. But they sounded like a weak firecracker in a piece of pipe, with no external flash, since I know nothing about musket caps could this be a musket nipple. Sorry for my ignorance, needless to say I didnt shoot it yesterday
 
A #11 cap will not fit on a Musket nipple.

It doesn't take much to mushroom out a #11 nipple. If you have a Vernier caliper or micrometer, measure the tip of the nipple. A #11 should be about 0.160" in diameter. It's been a while since I had a musket cap and I don't have that measurement.
 

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