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Can a flint be dulled or even 'melted' by being too close to the powder in the pan? I have a L&R small Manton lock and the jaws face directly into the pan which, I assume, is a really good thing. However, when I use a small flint that doesn't quite touch the frizzen at half cock, it nearly touches the bottom of the pan when shot. I get good ignition but my flints don't seem to last very long and seem to become quite blunt too. Would it be better if the hammer didn't go quite so far down when shot and thus placing the flint not quite so close to the powder in the pan? I'm already using short small pistol flints. Thanks.
 
dick rankin said:
Can a flint be dulled or even 'melted' by being too close to the powder in the pan? I have a L&R small Manton lock and the jaws face directly into the pan which, I assume, is a really good thing. However, when I use a small flint that doesn't quite touch the frizzen at half cock, it nearly touches the bottom of the pan when shot. I get good ignition but my flints don't seem to last very long and seem to become quite blunt too. Would it be better if the hammer didn't go quite so far down when shot and thus placing the flint not quite so close to the powder in the pan? I'm already using short small pistol flints. Thanks.

No, getting the flint too close to the pan will not even get it close to being hot enough to melt. You have another problem that needs to be solved. It could be your mainspring is too stiff or you need to point the bevel up or down to get the proper placement. Your flint pointing directly into the pan is good. What are you using, leather or lead to hold the flint? Can you provide pictures of the rifle on half cock and at full rest?
 
I've noticed that, don't think it's the pan flash so much as the touch hole blast. There's a lot of gritty stuff in that, as you notice when your arm gets in the way, it's a bit like grit blasting the flint edge :shocked2:
 
Really appreciate the comments. I'd love to post some pictures but am a bit technologically challenged and don't know how to do this. I do have a digital camera and know how to load pics on my computer just don't know how to attach them here. Will try to figure it out. Thanks again.
 
You need to get a web site like Photobucket.com to save your pictures on. It is free so if you want to upload pics this is how.
When you are in your album in Photobucket, roll your mouse over the photo you want to post. That will display a drop down menu, which has “IMG code” on the bottom. Click on it. The address of the photo will turn blue. Right click on it and you will get another little menu that has “copy” in it. Select copy. Now when you are in the posting area of the forum simply right click and select “paste” where you want the photo. It will put the photo’s address in your post. When you actually post, the picture will display. You can also preview first if you want and still edit more. Happy posting.
EB
 
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I have one of the Small Mantons on an English Target Pistol. It is one of the best locks I have ever owned. The flints last so long that it gets boring. :haha: Why are you placing the flints so close to the frizzen? I think you are hitting your pan and dulling the flint. This will also cause blow back of broken flint. The idea of getting the flint close to the frizzen on half cock comes from the Large Siler Lock. This does not apply to all locks. Make sure that the flint is getting a good scrap on the frizzen and not hitting the pan. The Manton will not be close to the frizzen on half cock. :hmm:
 
Okeydoke, here goes with my first attempt to reply AND send pictures. First of all I'm not even completely sure I have any lock/flint problems. I get good fast ignition nearly every time, I just don't get very long flint life, usually less than 25 shots. If I put the bevel up the flint stays out of the pan but strikes the frizzen well up near the top. If I put the bevel down the flint strikes lower on the frizzen but nearly bottoms out in the pan. My flints are 1/2" X 3/4". The one pictured has only been shot 1/2 doz times and initially was bevel down. The corner closest to the touch hole is most warn, blunt and rounded. The flint doesn't touch the barrel or pan, only the frizzen. I always use leather to hold the flint. Not sure if it makes any difference or not but the gun is over 20 yrs old and came with an installed touch hole liner. The hole is now larger than when I first used it and about 5/64". Doubt I've shot the gun 500 times. When I read all the forum comments there's alot of talk about flint wear, bevel up, bevel down, touch hole size, striking the frizzen too high, too low, frizzen worn, springs too strong, too weak, etc, and I just start to wonder stuff. It seems to me that nearly every picture I view of a lock with flint in it is well clear of the bottom of the pan. Really appreciate all the help and comments from other forum members. Thank you.
LrSmallMantonLock001.jpg
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LrSmallMantonLock013.jpg
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LrSmallMantonLock017.jpg
LrSmallMantonLock019.jpg
 
That's a very wide post. Several L&R locks are that way, with the flint ending up deep in the pan. It can be corrected if you want to, but is not necessary if it isn't affecting flint life. The flint is subject to the blast from the touchhole when it's that deep into the pan.

The way to change that is to add metal to the stop on the cock where it contacts the top of the lockplate, stopping forward motion of the cock. 1/8" could make quite a difference, but it would need to be wleded or brazed into place. Then of course we have the problem of the tumbler stop being out of time, because the tumbler stop is meant to contact the bridle at the same time as the cock comes to rest on the lockplate. In this case, a shim welded or brazed to the bridle is a good solution. All that is a lot of work, and you'd have to be sure the frizzen was still opening readily with less cock travel.
 
Hey, really nice job on those photos. You learned fast!
 
I checked my locks of which I have five different brands here and the Lyman goes down as far as your L&R does. It does not suffer poor flint life. My TC lock goes almost that far down into the pan and I have gotten 90+ shots from a single flint. But not every flint goes 90+ shots! Some are good flints and some are great flints. Maybe I don't get them lined up just so, who knows?
Keep shootn',
EB
 
Thanks but it took me many many hours AND the help of my son to figure it all out and still not completely sure I know what I did. I am definately technically and 'computerly' challenged. But It does seem to have worked out...for now. Would like to be able to respond to Paul who sent me a very helpful and detailed email but can't even figure out how to do that.
 
In case I've done something I shouldn't have and to avoid doing it again, what do you mean by "that's a very wide post"? I don't want to take up more space than I should and just am not completely clear on forum do's and dont's. Really appreciate the helpfulness of the forums and certainly don't want to abuse the privilege of it's use. Thanks.
 
Maybe if you put spaces or whole lines in between your photos the post would not be so wide. Not sure why it does that sometimes. makes it hard to read! But a very good topic, good pix, and so thanks for illustrating it.
 
Ye Archer said:
... If I put the bevel up the flint stays out of the pan but strikes the frizzen well up near the top. If I put the bevel down the flint strikes lower on the frizzen but nearly bottoms out in the pan. ...
Not meaning to be awkward, but that sounds backwards. With the bevel up (and flat side down), the front edge of the flint should strike lower on the frizzen and wind up deeper in the pan. I wonder if maybe we're using the terms differently.

Regards,
Joel
 
All of the above is correct .A flint is a chip of stone,so they will vary some,buy a couple of each& you will see which works best for you & your new gun :thumbsup:
 
Excellent photos!
My belief is that this class of lock was designed for the fastest possible ignition. It has a very heavy mainspring, a tumbler stirrup and a frizzen roller. All this makes for quick lock time, but the trade off is decreased flint life. Flints will never last as long as they do in locks with lighter springs.

What I do is carefully resharpen the flints as needed, and when they get too short I save them for the day when I have a lock that takes 5/8" flints... When flints get too short the forward edge of the cock's top jaw will scrape the frizzen, resulting in very slow ignition!!!
 

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