Missouri

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Red Owl

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What was the situation in Missouri? I started out in theWst, then North and the school books said Missouri stayed in the Union. Then we moved south and the books said Missouri left the Union but didn't join the Confederacy? If you are from the North you probably don't see the Confederacy as including Oklahoma (at least at the start), Missouri, the bottom half of New Mexico and Arizona.
Along the same lines, Kentucky and Maryland, how could they be "Neutral"? The other thing I've come to learn is there were a lot of "hot spots" in the west, like Julesburg CO. Some of these towns were settled by Southern pioneers and pro-South. In fact the only place the "War Between the States" might have been a Civil War may have been in the west, where you might not know what side your neighbor favored.
 

jsb30

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During the civil war only Virginia and Tennessee saw more action than Missouri. Ulysses S Grant first proved his ability here. Sterling Price , a former governor of Missouri sided with the South and raised a Army and led it in battle all over the state. Bloody Bill Anderson and William Quantrill terrorized Missouri. Over 300 documented engagements took place within Missouri borders.
 

tenngun

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Along the Missouri River, and the boot heal there were larger plantations, cotton in the boot heal and hemp along the river. That was slave territory and wealthy and wanted to go south.
west of Saint Louis and north saw a lot of German immigrants who for the most part staunchly union men. The south west tended to be small farms and slave owners tended to be small. And most didn’t own slaves at all and tended to be moderately union.
The rough lands that dominated some of the state was full of old families that took advantage the war to settle old grudges
The state was crisscrossed with irregulars that made war on the innocent based on mild suspension of holding union or confederate sympathies and whom one joined depended on who attacked your farm or murdered your loved one.
Early in the war Lyon and Fremont decided to make war on the state without authority and Lincoln came on quickly to shut it down.
Lyon would March across the state scattering militia forces, and taking control of the wire road. In Aug of 61 he ran in to forces largely from Arkansas and also operation largely ‘on their own hook’ meeting at Wilson creek. The second major battle of the war, just a few weeks after Bull Run, and the first campaign of the war.
Lyons would have been one of the great generals of the war I think, on par with Sherman or Sheridan.
Im pretty much of a southern sympathizer but I’ll give the devil his due. Lyons saved the state for the union.
The next spring the wire rode was secured with the battle of Pea Ridge. And Missouri/Arkansas/ the Nations/ Kansas became a back water. Missouri northern Arkansas became just a lawless hell of murder and theft, that had little to do with the war effort.
when the war ended the lawless continued. Jesse James or the Bald Knobbers carried on long after.
 

smoothshooter

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What was the situation in Missouri? I started out in theWst, then North and the school books said Missouri stayed in the Union. Then we moved south and the books said Missouri left the Union but didn't join the Confederacy? If you are from the North you probably don't see the Confederacy as including Oklahoma (at least at the start), Missouri, the bottom half of New Mexico and Arizona.
Along the same lines, Kentucky and Maryland, how could they be "Neutral"? The other thing I've come to learn is there were a lot of "hot spots" in the west, like Julesburg CO. Some of these towns were settled by Southern pioneers and pro-South. In fact the only place the "War Between the States" might have been a Civil War may have been in the west, where you might not know what side your neighbor favored.
Not any larger engagements except at Wilson’s Creek in August of 1861, which was a “ moderately-sized “ battle.

There were many small skirmishes between small units. It was largely a guerrilla and bushwhacker war with with few prisoners taken. “ War crimes “, as we would call them now, were the order of the day. An ugly situation that lasted for at least 5 years after the war was officially over as old scores were settled between neighbors and others.
Almost all this activity took place in the extreme southern and southwest parts of the state close to border areas.
There is a noted lack of war stories of the type that are commonly passed down through the generations back east in which the veteran fondly reminisces about his exploits during the war detailing specifics about who he served under, where he went, and what he did when he got there. I think this was, in a lot of cases, in order to avoid prosecution by the law, or being murdered in revenge by the friends and relatives of someone killed during the war.
 

oldwood

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Tenngun.............Thanks much for the history lesson. Too little history is repeated anymore.
.......oldwood
 
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Notchy Bob

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Missouri was a slave state, but never seceded to join the Confederacy. I believe Kentucky did essentially the same thing, in that the Kentucky state legislature wanted to stay with the Union, but a very substantial grassroots opposition precluded any official declaration. Funny, but I never thought of these as neutral states. Both sides wanted to claim them. Eleven states formally seceded, but the Confederate battle flag had thirteen stars... The extra two were "wishful thinking" regarding Missouri and Kentucky. I know Kentucky fielded companies of Confederates as well as Unionists.

West Virginia seceded from Virginia (as a slave state) and remained loyal to the Union after Virginia joined the Confederacy. Maryland and Delaware were both slave states that remained loyal to the union.

People in the general public nowadays want the simplified and sanitized version of history... Good guys versus bad guys. If you take a sincere interest in history, though, you find it gets complicated, and sometimes messy. My own preconceptions are frequently challenged. You have to be careful with whom you discuss this sort of thing, these days.

What would we have done, if we lived back then? I believe, in my heart, I would have wanted the Union to be preserved, and would maintain a philosophical opposition to secession, but I probably would have joined the Confederates out of loyalty to my community and state, and in defense of my home. I think a lot of southern boys were in that situation. Makes me glad I was born a century or so too late to participate.

Notchy Bob
 

FiremanBrad

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I’ve held the book in my hands, with the proclamation written, voted on, by Missouri’s duly elected state legislature, to secede. Signed by our duly elected Governor, Claiborne Fox Jackson.
 

LME

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During the civil war only Virginia and Tennessee saw more action than Missouri. Ulysses S Grant first proved his ability here. Sterling Price , a former governor of Missouri sided with the South and raised a Army and led it in battle all over the state. Bloody Bill Anderson and William Quantrill terrorized Missouri. Over 300 documented that rarely get mentionedengagements took place within Missouri borders.
Missouri may have had more action than Va or Tenn? if all the skirmishes by Shelby ,Anderson, Quantrill and other smaller groups that never get mentioned are added up. Missouri was fighting before the war officially started? I had relatives in the eleventh Texas cav. that went to Missouri to help Price .
 

Notchy Bob

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I’ve held the book in my hands, with the proclamation written, voted on, by Missouri’s duly elected state legislature, to secede. Signed by our duly elected Governor, Claiborne Fox Jackson.
Thanks for that, Brad. It has always been my understanding that Missouri did not officially secede, but if you've seen the actual document, with articles of secession, I won't argue the point! As I stated in a previous post, "My own preconceptions are frequently challenged."

Best regards,

Notchy Bob
 

FiremanBrad

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Thanks for that, Brad. It has always been my understanding that Missouri did not officially secede, but if you've seen the actual document, with articles of secession, I won't argue the point! As I stated in a previous post, "My own preconceptions are frequently challenged."

Best regards,

Notchy Bob
I have a pic somewhere!
 

Red Owl

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Thanks FiremanBrad. I was born in the West, moved to the Northeast halfway through childhood (never accepted by the northeasterners) and then moved South as a young adult. My family was neutral of the whole issue, neither pro North or Pro South, maybe slightly pro-South. My brother always seemed to be that way. A lot of folks in the west thought of it as "somebody else's war. The Northeast and Midwest against the south, that the west was more or less out of it.. In any event, the history books in the North absolutely had it that Missouri STAYED with the Union but was neutral. That's why when I heard they actually did secede I thought I had better check it out. What I read, as I already stated, was they did leave the union but didn't join the Confederacy. So thanks for the confirmation. If you are from the south and sometimes think the folks from the North are unreasonable, please realize they had a completely different education, books and all. That goes to form an opinion.
While on the subject of Brainwashing, as a "tween" the family took a vacation to Tennessee and went to the Hermitage, home of Andrew Jackson. Now I had been educated in school that Andrew Jackson was one of the worst Presidents we ever had, so when I saw all the folks visiting the Hermitage with a great deal of respect, etc. I asked my Dad if Andrew Jackson was a good or bad President. It was then he told me Jackson was considered by many to have been one of the best presidents in US History. I could not believe it. I had no preconceived notions either way and so when the teachers did their part- I came away totally brain washed with no idea I had been brain washed. Another example was I was told the Soviet Union was a stronger, better country than the United States. When I was in 7th grade one of the teachers was in the Army reserve and mentioned in passing we were the most power country in the world.
"You mean second most, Russian is stronger than we are!" said one student. The teacher said, no, we are stronger than Russia. All the students began arguing. There was NOT ONE student that up until that point in time had any idea we were a stronger country than the Soviet Union. NOT ONE. So....don't automatically trust your teachers.
And for our purposes......it takes a lot of digging in historical research to try to find out what is what. You read one book, say Buffalo Bill about "Slade" the stage coach station manager, and Slade is a fine Gentleman, then mark Twain, on Slade, who Twain called a blood thirty cut throat. You have to read a lot of books about the same thing to get any true idea of what is what.
 

tenngun

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I’ve held the book in my hands, with the proclamation written, voted on, by Missouri’s duly elected state legislature, to secede. Signed by our duly elected Governor, Claiborne Fox Jackson.
Lyons first objective was to stop the legal government of Missouri from voting, and this an federal army marched on a state that was not in rebellion, the act of succession was never passed via a quorum vote in Missouri legislator. So even though signed it was not a real bill. So never had enough of a civilian government then to join the CSA
 
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Al C

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I have read, and seen a map posted, that showed a portion of Northern Mo that at one time was called " Little Dixie ", due to the large percentage of southern sympathizers. They, in turn, had some problems with a guy in Ks, who went by the name John Brown. Lots of men from Little Dixie made trouble along Ks/Mo border area pre civil war.
 

sawyer04

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Lived in Missouri for over 70 years and really don't know the exact history. Sure, read articles and heard what took place by word of mouth. In the graveyard just down the road there lies more confederate soldiers than union soldiers. I have come to the conclusion that, beside the documented battles of blue and gray that a lot of people were just mean and spiteful. Lot of stories about the red legs, but I am not sure if they were blue or gray, Every description leans toward the gray, but they just blasted and burned what ever they wanted to. It was a dark time.
A lot has been written about Jesse James and Cantrell. I am careful to believe the government documents of the time, I sometimes wonder if the news media was much different then than it is now.
I won't argue yea, or nay over any documented history; a lot of research has been done, but we didn't have the internet and the government could be deciding one thing while a completely opposite thing was actually taking place in the country side.
 

smoothshooter

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Missouri was a slave state, but never seceded to join the Confederacy. I believe Kentucky did essentially the same thing, in that the Kentucky state legislature wanted to stay with the Union, but a very substantial grassroots opposition precluded any official declaration. Funny, but I never thought of these as neutral states. Both sides wanted to claim them. Eleven states formally seceded, but the Confederate battle flag had thirteen stars... The extra two were "wishful thinking" regarding Missouri and Kentucky. I know Kentucky fielded companies of Confederates as well as Unionists.

West Virginia seceded from Virginia (as a slave state) and remained loyal to the Union after Virginia joined the Confederacy. Maryland and Delaware were both slave states that remained loyal to the union.

People in the general public nowadays want the simplified and sanitized version of history... Good guys versus bad guys. If you take a sincere interest in history, though, you find it gets complicated, and sometimes messy. My own preconceptions are frequently challenged. You have to be careful with whom you discuss this sort of thing, these days.

What would we have done, if we lived back then? I believe, in my heart, I would have wanted the Union to be preserved, and would maintain a philosophical opposition to secession, but I probably would have joined the Confederates out of loyalty to my community and state, and in defense of my home. I think a lot of southern boys were in that situation. Makes me glad I was born a century or so too late to participate.

Notchy Bob
It might be more accurate to say that Missouri was a sort of hybrid slave/free state with a state government that favored the South, while most of the citizens favored he North.
 

FiremanBrad

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I have read, and seen a map posted, that showed a portion of Northern Mo that at one time was called " Little Dixie ", due to the large percentage of southern sympathizers. They, in turn, had some problems with a guy in Ks, who went by the name John Brown. Lots of men from Little Dixie made trouble along Ks/Mo border area pre civil war.
More correctly, the Little Dixie region is the counties all along the Mo. River. Some of the best ag land on earth, that helped raise good hemp crops!
 
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