mini cannon interest

[matt denison]

I recently made a mini cannon barrel, am working on the design for the carraige.

I bored it 11/32" (.33" cal) so I can use some .31 balls that I already have. OD of the round stock was 7/8". I was only able to bore 4 inches deep because I was limited by the length of the drill bit. ( I have a large Clausing lathe) Overall length is a mere 4 3/4". I mocked up a way to hold it for one test fire with a blank and all went well.

I did this project in anticipation of the mini cannon shoot at the 2011 Western National Rendezvous in Red Lodge, Mt.. Does anyone else out here in cannonland have/shoot one of these little wonders? Is there any interest in shooting these minis?

By the way I have had larger "real" cannons and have a working knowledge of loading and safety rules so no need to go there.

L. Dog
a. k. a. Matt Denison

 

[mazo kid]

Matt, I have several small cannons, from 4" through 22". Is there a barrel length range for these to qualify as "mini cannons"? I made my first one from bar stock and bored 1/2". I've been shooting blank loads from this for 30+ years. The others are commercially made, CVA, Cannon Mike, etc.

 

[matt denison]

I had a Cannon Mike cannon for several years and got tired of feeding it. I went through a tremendous amount of powder (500gr per shot) and the balls weighed 1/2 lb. My lead pile got small fast!

The shoot at the RMNR Rendezvous requires a bore .50 cal. or under. I'd guess any cannon that shoots a rifle size ball would qualify as a mini. I turned down another one yesterday 'cause I saw one in a magazine that I wanted to copy. Same bore, different countour. I want one more, a swivel gun. I want to make the swivel more than the barrel :wink: I have a piece of 1" diam. steel and want to make it a .50 cal ( .250" barrel walls) and a little longer so I'll have to weld an extension onto a 1/2" drill bit.

Maybe some day I'll take the time to learn how to post pictures and show it off with targets.

L. Dog

 

[TheDoubleD]

You should bring your cannon over to Cut Bank next August for the miniature cannon shoot.

 

[matt denison]

I'm aware that there was a cannon shoot in Cut Bank last year, some friends of mine attended. I didn't go 'cause I don't currently have a "real" cannon. I sold it before it ate me out of powder and lead. (I named it The Powder Whore) I might be interested in shooting my mini there though if I had more info, when, where etc. Heck, at this rate I may have a bunch of them by then. :grin:

 

[TheDoubleD]

We are strictly in the planning stages right now. Range will be dead flat next year, no shooting down hill. Model cannons and mortars smaller than half scale.

Saturday will be open shooting. Sunday will be some structured events. We will hold at least one stage of a South African Miniature Cannon Club shoot. Other events in consideration are hole in one pot shot for golf ball mortars.

We are going build at least a fort and lay siege to it.

We don't hold a shooting match, we shoot cannons.

We had a 2/5 scale model of the French 1000kg Monstre mortar. Shot a 137 projectile made by filling 10 gallon plastic water bottle with cement.

Most of the planning goes on over on GBO Cannons.

 

[buzz]

my 1" bore cannon is about right it shoot nice with .95 ball and i use a cotton cleaning patch
with some lube (i know its not to be patched) but this is a nice easy slip fit i can start and easly push the ball 3 or 4 inchs down the barrel
the patch and lude keep things clean
i use between 100 and 150 grains of 2f powder
barrel is made fron solid bar 4140 4 inch dia x 24 inchs long
this sizes fits nicely as it big enouf it not a fancy pistol and yet small enouf not tobe a powder whore

 

[TheDoubleD]

I don't use patches in my 1 inch. Don't need it. Proper procedure for cannons is to load with a foil wrap cartridge. After firing worm the bore, swab the bore dry the bore, then load.

Even when I shot my .50 cal SAMCC cannon, I swab and dry the bore. I do patch the .50. Since I am shooting from a clean bore, I use a dry patch.

I use cast lead round ball in both the 1 inch and .50, I use zinc in my pop can and 6 PDR. THe one inch uses 195 grains of Fg. FFg generates to much pressure, gives to much recoil and has a shorter range than equivalent load of Fg.

I have been experimenting with 1 inch steel balls with a sabot but not all that happy with them. If I could find a steel one inch round ball mould I would cast some zinc round ball. My one inch gun is kind of tight as it only has .010 windage.

 

[buzz]

yes thats proper but i found the cotton patch makes a better shoot in my cannon i tryed the foil ball powder cartiage works but much more work
i fire 4 to 5 rounds at a shoot with at least an hour between shots i dont get much recoil either
i would like to try 1fg and the group here is trying to get an order together
real BP works even better

 

[widget350]

Mini cannon are a great solution to many problems, not the least of which is powder supplies. Us cannon guys can easily go through more powder in a weekend then rifle guys can go through in 5 years. Factor in a place to display them in your house (without getting in trouble, at least), and mini scales do seem quite appealing!

Please get some pictures up. We'd all like to see your cannon!

 

[matt denison]

When I was shooting my 2-bore I used a patch and 5oo gr. of FFg. It was quite accurate for a smoothbored gun. I once shot a 6 shot 8" group at 100 yards with it and won several blue ribbons with it. I'm sure the patch made the diference. I also made foil cartridges and pricked them. Now with this tiny .30 cal. I don't see a practical way to use a foil cartridge. I shot it this weekend with 13 1/2 grains of FFFg loose in the bore and it had the report I was looking for and was somewhat accurate. It sounded like a small bore pistol.

I designed the bore diameter to hold a .31 cal ball with a .010" patch. Is this unsafe or improper somehow? The loading procedure on a barrel this small is like loading a pistol. At an event I will of course swab and etc. but no reason to use a hook if no cartridge has been used.

Another potential problem I see loading this way is the use of loose powder. I would like to insert the fuse BEFORE adding the powder because of the tiny amount. A range master might have a fit with me doing that at a cannon shoot. How do others load their little guns?

 

[mazo kid]

Here is a photo of the large and small cannons. I made the carriage for the larger one from scaling a photo from the book "Round Shot and Rammer". It has a bore of 1" in a sleeved cast barrel. I think I posted this once before.

 

[buzz]

i can see that as the bore goese up the need to do things differently is a must
for safety and ease
but for smaller bore the need to things the same
i would never patch a cannon or mortor like i do my smooth bore rifles
i never shoot at a cannon group shoot but i read there rules and guidelines and it complys to there standards

 

[TheDoubleD]

The foil cartridges are for larger bores generally over 3/4 inch.

Like any load they are time consuming, but they add a safety factor. They are required in AAA and NSSA shooting. They are also required for shooting cannons in MA.

Because The larger calibers have greater surface area. When patched they require greater force to seat. This tighter fit also increases pressure when the cannon is fired. Add to this using a faster burning powder like FFg instead of Fg or even better Cannon grade pressures can go way up fast.

I suggest for an eye opener you get a copy of Matt Swiliks article on Cannon pressures based on pressure guns tests. The article is avaialbe from The Artilleryman Magazine.

There is plenty of public data on blackpowder in shoulder and hand arms, but when you get into calibers abov .75 there is a vacuum until you get to the full size cannons.

Abundant caution and due diligence should be practiced when you move out of small arms calibers.

 

[robertdale]

I now have a small cannon. it has a 9/32 bore, use #2 buck with a .010 patch,9 grns of 2ff.
it is a monkeytail swivel mount. I put a old hawk butt in my Ranger bed and drilled a hole to push the mount into. I have had good luck with this and it is a lot of cheep fun.

I think mine is purty than lafdog........ :blah: