Middlesex Double Barrel

[Britsmoothy]

Sometimes more is not better!

A good fitting single will be just as good :hatsoff:

Brits.

 

[Robby]

grzrob, If you don't want them, send the locks to me, I'll pay postage. I like trying to make something from nothing. Sometimes it works, sometimes not, but I always learn something along the way.
Robby

 

[54mountain]

Michael,

You've stated that you Know nothing about flintlocks.

Buying a poorly made gun with locks of unknown quality is the easiest way to turn yourself off on flintlocks forever.

get yourself a quality made single with either an L&R or Chambers lock and save yourself a lot of grief, also a good lock will cut the learning curve down to nearly nothing and you'll Know the pleasure of having a gun that goes off nearly every time you pull the trigger.

good luck on your quest

Galen

 

[CoyoteJoe]

I understand the dread of bureaucratic mumbo-jumbo but it is what it is so I'd say "take the test, pay the fee, jump through the hoops and become a licensed firearms hunter". That will not only permit the use of a Pedersoli percussion double, which is as fine a bird gun as one could ever want, but would open the door to other firearms you may find appealing in the future.

 

[mikeoosting]

Where in Ontario are you? I'm in Barrie area. If you are not too far , I nivite you to see for yourself the gun. That alone will change your mind in a millisecond.

I live maybe 4-5 hours way. Maybe a bit less. Quite a ways away just to see a gun.

You have posted a query here as to the thoughts on this questionable double, and you got their answers, it would seem that you have already made up your mind in purchasing this fine piece of junk.

The response just seemed very quick to me, I just wanted an explanation on what made it "junk". It was such a quick dismissal that I thought it was just a knee-jerk reaction to the fact that it was a gun from India.

What I can gather is that the gun:

1) Has the worst locks ever created in the history of flintlocks

2) Is a bit on the heavy side.

I have one of the Middlesex double barrel flintlock shotguns. It handles great and patterns well. Mine turned out to be a 19 gage. The locks on mine were junk I replaced them with L&R Manton locks which made it a real shotgun. I also browned all the polished metal. I have friends who have also replaced the locks and one friend who had functional locks. The locks are a manure shoot with the odds against you. Still with the cost of the two replacement locks I wound up with a double barrel flintlock shotgun for well under $1000. All India made guns are kits but this was one of the easier ones.

Now THIS is helpful! So everyone clarified that the locks on the gun are absolute manure. However, if replacing the locks isn't too expensive it makes it a lot cheaper then getting one built from scratch.

I think I've got my heart set on a double. This would be an affordable way to get one, and, if I were to have the locks replaced the only remaining issue would be that it's a bit heavy, which isn't that big of a deal.

I just looked it up on L&R's website: $256 for two Manton locks. That puts it at $1000, and I'd still have to have the locks installed. Is that something I could do on my own or something I'd have to get someone to do? If so, how much would it cost?

 

[bnail]

you know you GOT TO let us know how this works out. . . complete with LOTS of photos!
Good luck.

 

[sheba]

I think a better idea would be finding a TC new englander in 12ga and converting it to flint like some on here already have done.I have one and am considering on doing the conversion myself.

 

[mikeoosting]

you know you GOT TO let us know how this works out. . . complete with LOTS of photos!
Good luck.

Over PT I'm being told that there's also a few more issues with the middlesex gun. Apparently the wood on the stock is mediocre in quality.

I'm still considering doing the build from The Rifle Shoppe, I just learned that they *do* sell barrels for the single barrel fowler by Joe Manton, same gauge, for $245. Couldn't you just get two of those and have a gunsmith join them?

I think a better idea would be finding a TC new englander in 12ga and converting it to flint like some on here already have done.I have one and am considering on doing the conversion myself.

I just google'd that gun and it's a single barrel. Still, converting a percussion to flintlock is an interesting idea. I'm being told it's costly though.

 

[mikeoosting]

I still get the feeling that a lot of what's being said about the gun from MVTCo is just a knee-jerk reaction by people who've never used it.

I'm going to wait for grzrob's two cents, considering he actually owns the gun, changed the locks and apparently doesn't have any complaints.

In fact, if he does have only good things to say, I could get this shotgun cheaper than a single barrel, really.

 

[Shine]

So why did you even ask the rest of us. Good luck to ya :hatsoff:

 

[Flintfan69]

So why did you even ask the rest of us. Good luck to ya :hatsoff:

He kept asking until he got the answer he wanted to hear. He'll buy the gun, and learn soon enough.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

It seems to you that the quick responses represent a "knee jerk reaction" but the fact is that the responses were quick because this very subject has been discussed on this forum many, many times before. If you do a search for "India made guns" you get a weeks worth of reading. My own experience with an MVTC gun is a single percussion. It has good lines since it is a copy of an English gun. The weight is just over 7 pounds which is OK for a 12 gauge. The stock is some crappy mystery wood with very coarse checkering and a spray on varnish. The lock required some tuning and replacement of the sear spring. The barrel was bored with a double taper, 12 gauge at both ends tapering to about 14 gauge in the middle. I was able to ream and hone the bore to a uniform 12 gauge and it now patterns very nicely but not everyone would have the ability to do that. I got that gun on close out for half price and after putting a couple of days work into it I'd say it's worth about what I paid. Although it now shoots well it still looks like a crappy Indian gun. I'm satisfied that I got all I expected and it was worth the 1/2 price I paid but that was the story of a percussion single, I'd expect a flint double to be at least four times the trouble.
It seems to me that you are putting yourself out a very great deal just to avoid taking a test that hundreds of thousands of your fellow Canadians have survived.

 

[tallbear]

Mike
I have not owned any of these India gun but over the last ten years I've worked on a few.Reenactors use them as they reseamble original period guns and are cheap.They are in fact "junk".If it looks good from afar and go bang most of the time most reenactors are happy.They are not anything I would hunt with or rely on.Some problems they have are;
Poor locks
Mystery wood
questional barrel quality
Overall poor construction
100lb trigger pull
I care not how you spend your money but you have been warned.

Mitch

 

[justtim]

Knee jerk reaction from people who have never used the gun ? Really ? Several , myself included , who had/have first hand knowledge replied back to you.You don't have to take any of our advice, but please don't poo poo our knowledge on this. If you want the darn thing, buy it. I feel like my head is about to explode.

 

[Robby]

I agree with CoyoteJoe. Take the course, it isn't meant to be an impediment to hunting. These courses are taught by volunteers that love the sport and give of their time freely. I'm sure it is in compliance with IHEA and upon completion your certificate will allow you to hunt in other provinces as well as any of our fifty states.
Robby

 

[mikeoosting]

Several people now have warned me about barrel quality and that's something I cannot fix cheap.

This is all I wanted, just an in depth answer as to what made it junk.

I'll abandon this idea. I did just get good news this morning, The Rifle Shoppe emailed me saying they can sell me a pair of barrels, unattached, for $250. Also I apparently forgot the second set of locks in my first calculation. That would bring the cost in parts up to $1000.

 

[Zoar]

Michael---Just joining two barrels does not a double barrel shotgun make.

There is a great deal more unless you just want a wall hanger.

I understand you do not want to pay $3,000 for a professionally made double barrel which includes the parts supplied by the Rifle Shoppe.

I get that. We all get that. However good flintlock doubles are quite rare. And that is the starting price and yes many on here have researched this, built them and have had many discussions about flintlock doubles (I want one badly myself). So with this experience (and yes I have built 5 guns myself and am a novice compared to many here but certainly have more experience than you at this point) we are telling you that to build or modify or do whatever you might need to get a GOOD double barrel flintlock one that shoots for hunting, you will spend about $3,000. and that is a boat load of money for someone who has no experience with flintlocks to spend.

Thus and since you are new to flintlocks, we strongly recommend you buy a single barrel smoothbore first. You could get one for probably around $500. Maybe even less. You will learn a great deal. You will use it to hunt and learn about that too. It will be well worth the money spent. :thumbsup:

 

[justtim]

Amen. Your first gun should not be what is arguably the hardest gun there is to build.But to each his own

 

[jdkerstetter]

The Rifle Shoppe emailed me saying they can sell me a pair of barrels, unattached, for $250.

Are you sure that's not $250 each????

I would question any barrel sold at $125 each these days.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Zoar]

Michael--My first flintlock was a Lyman Trade Rifle, Flint. The best 250 or so bucks I could have spent. It taught me thousands of dollars $ worth of flintlock lessons. Man was I green when I first got that flintlock.... But wow, the education is fast and steep AFTER you get one and shoot it.... I started building Flintlocks after THAT flintlock. I still think I got all my money back and more from diving in and buying one that was inexpensive yet not garbage. (just not authentic but not garbage either)