Metal working files?

[Trapper Scott]

I actually do have a set of those, but have no idea how to use them. I thought I needed them for my current little project, but I didn’t end up using them.

They come in handy for curved areas and tight spaces where you need to put a final touch that a chisel or gouge won't fit into.

 

[bptactical]

Think back to what our forefathers used when they built the original rifles.
Files
Chisels
Scrapers
Brace&bit

Realize that your most important tool investment is feeding your brain.
Books
The Gunsmith of Grenville County
The Art of Recreating the Pennsylvania Longrifle

 

[TobJohn]

Think back to what our forefathers used when they built the original rifles.
Files
Chisels
Scrapers
Brace&bit

Realize that your most important tool investment is feeding your brain.
Books
The Gunsmith of Grenville County
The Art of Recreating the Pennsylvania Longrifle

That’s how I got to this point haha. In the pre flintlock section, someone had recommended the colonial long rifle smithing video from the 60s in response to my question on lock plates. It was very inspiring on the importance of the file.

I also ordered that Pennsylvania Longrifle book a couple of days ago from Track of the Wolf and am currently waiting on its delivery. I even got a book on building Renaissance era furniture, for some inspiration/resources when I get to the stock carving phase.

 

[billraby]

Grobet is probably the best files you can get now.

 

[Colonial Boy]

File cards are fine but sometimes a bit of steel will stick and resist the card; a good tool to have is a brass flat that can be pushed across the file’s face in the direction of the cuts, thus forcing stubborn blockages out.
Doesn’t take long before the brass wears to suit the file, so keep a brass for different sizes.
The cheapest, and possibly the best, are brass cartridge cases, flatten the first 1/2 inch or so by squeezing. in the vyce; they quichly wear to suit the file.

 

[Trapper Scott]

File cards are fine but sometimes a bit of steel will stick and resist the card; a good tool to have is a brass flat that can be pushed across the file’s face in the direction of the cuts, thus forcing stubborn blockages out.
Doesn’t take long before the brass wears to suit the file, so keep a brass for different sizes.
The cheapest, and possibly the best, are brass cartridge cases, flatten the first 1/2 inch or so by squeezing. in the vyce; they quichly wear to suit the file.

I'll have to try that. Thanks for the tip.

 

[Colonial Boy]

Just remembered that I’d been given a rusted file last week; here’s the results of cleaning with a just flattened 30-06 case, the teeth are quite clear.
Long way to go; the file still feels sharp.

 

[hawkenhunter50]

Another tip I just found out not too long ago. You can send old files to be sharpened by a company called Bogg's Tool Company. I never knew you could sharpen files before. I sent out a batch to be sharpened and have been happy with the results.

 

[Tenmile]

I used Grobet files making steel templates for molder knives. They were more expensive but were worth it. Files are used up in the process. I didn’t know they could be sharpened. That would save money if you use a lot of them.

 

[Artificer]

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What are some good options for metal working files? I have a bahco 8 inch bastard file, but it still seems to be a little too fine cut for removing a lot of metal.

The Stanley or Nicholson 8 inch Handy File is by far one of the most versatile and inexpensive files everyone should have in their toolbox to work metal. If you have to file your lawn mower blade, hand scythe or axe/tomahawk blades, THIS is the file to have using the double cut side for more aggressive metal removal and the single cut for finer filing.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Nicholson-8-in-Handy-File-06601NN/312731854
I was first introduced to this file for gun work when I went through my apprenticeship to become a NM Armorer. Nowadays I keep THREE of them in my toolbox and have made simple masking tape wrapped cardboard sheaths for all of them. The brand new ones first go into the "Wood/Plastics" Sheath, then as they or the file in the "Brass/Aluminum/Soft Metal" begins to wear, they are moved into that sheath, the old file from the "Brass/Aluminum/Soft Metal" then goes into the "Iron/Steel" sheath. Once the file in the "Iron/Steel" sheath wears, I repeat the process with a new one in the "Wood/Plastics" and moving the old ones on through the two other sheaths. I HAVE at times put a brand new one in the "Iron/Steel" sheath for special projects and at the low cost, I sometimes buy new ones for special projects in that metal because it's worth it to do so.

Gus

 

[Red Owl]

The chalk and file brush are very important when you get down to the finish work. A bit of steel stuck in the file will gouge the surface and damage your work. Chalk and I usually do a draw stroke so I'll take three, one with the op of the file, the second- using the middle of the file, the last using the bottom of the file- then brush and re-chalk.
I also use flat bars that I glue sand paper to. For finish work. Elmer's Glue is not waterproof so you can pull off the old sandpaper (usually just pull) or if really stuck- a little water will take off the sand paper. If you wrap sandpaper around a bar- not the same. You need to glue it. The edges of the paper need to be crimped over the side. Sandpaper edges can also gouge the surface.

 

[TobJohn]

The chalk and file brush are very important when you get down to the finish work. A bit of steel stuck in the file will gouge the surface and damage your work. Chalk and I usually do a draw stroke so I'll take three, one with the op of the file, the second- using the middle of the file, the last using the bottom of the file- then brush and re-chalk.
I also use flat bars that I glue sand paper to. For finish work. Elmer's Glue is not waterproof so you can pull off the old sandpaper (usually just pull) or if really stuck- a little water will take off the sand paper. If you wrap sandpaper around a bar- not the same. You need to glue it. The edges of the paper need to be crimped over the side. Sandpaper edges can also gouge the surface.

I have a liter of elmers I got for model making, so that is convenient.

 

[waksupi]

Another tip I just found out not too long ago. You can send old files to be sharpened by a company called Bogg's Tool Company. I never knew you could sharpen files before. I sent out a batch to be sharpened and have been happy with the results.

Excellent company, I've been dealing with them for years. Files come back sharper than new, and the price is very affordable!
https://boggstool.com/

 

[Clint Meier]

I read somewhere a while back that you could place a worn file into pure white vinegar for a while (try an hour or two at first) and that the acid in the vinegar would etch the file's teeth and sharpen them up a bit, thus extending the file's life. One needs to check the file frequently because if left in too long, the acid can dissolve the teeth away. Since you aren't supposed to oil a file, I would expect that after the vinegar bath, soaking the file in a solution of borax (Boraxo) and water would be a good idea to neutralize the acid, then dry off maybe with a hair dryer to prevent rust.

 

[Moe ziggley]

i got three sets of files from my grand father,,he rewound generators and other electrical windings which is un heard of today,,he taught me to repair harley starters and car generators later alternators...he also used the same small files in his gun work,,, some of them are like a tooth pick..i dont know what the different sets are called but maybe,ll take some pictures of the packaging,,i used one on a nipple and a touch hole,,what i have been after for a while now is a screw plate to repair and make period correct screws,,unless someone has an answer for that..the jewlery threads are off and every tap i find is either the right thread but wrong diameter

 

[Old-Duckman]

i got three sets of files from my grand father,,,, some of them are like a tooth pick..

The ones "like a toothpick" are probably escapement files, used by watchmakers. I have a few but have seldom used them . Too fine for even most jewelry work...at least the work I do.

 

[Old-Duckman]

Regarding needle files a good set will set you back a good bit of money. The larger sets usually have 12 files of different types (shapes and areas that cut or are safe). Most of your better needle files are "Swiss Pattern" and are graded in coarseness by numbers vs names as American pattern files are. 00 being the coarsest and 6 the finest. As in American pattern files when a Swiss pattern file is longer the same #cut is coarser.

In the past I was able to get some very nice needle files in auctions. If you can't hold and see the actual used files you are buying...beware. If the teeth of a file reflect light, that area of the file is dull. A sufficiently dull file, like any dull cutting instrument, is pretty worthless.

Someone earlier mentioned a company that sharpens dull files. I have heard of such a thing a long time ago but never investigated it. My guess is that it involves subjecting the file to some type of acid but I'm just guessing.

When I used to take metalworking classes with my jewelry making contemporaries I would often (very often) see them attack a filing job with a needle file when it should have been done with a larger file. (a "hand file" is often used by jewelers. It is similar to a mill file...but different. I won't bore you with the differences), Using a small needle file vs a much larger hand or other style file is the wrong approach as the smaller file works less of an area of the piece and the crafts person can end up with a "wavy" surface where the larger file spans a larger area of the piece and you tend to avoid a "hills and valleys" surface. A needle file obviously removes less metal than a larger file and thus increases the time used to get where you want to go. Do as much stock removal with a more aggressive (and larger) tool and as you get closer to your goal use a finer (and sometimes smaller) file. Sorta like sanding, a coarse grit paper will remove material and refine your shape and finer grits smooth and polish.

Oh and one more thing re" needle files. I use one of those wooden "tooth brushes" with stainless steel bristles as my file cleaner. And as another poster noted, pushing a piece of brass in the same direction of the teeth (not like you were filing the brass but pushing the stuck metal parts out of the teeth with the brass, will remove bits of metal that the "tooth brush" will not remove.) BTW, the stuck metal parts are referred to as pins or pinning. If you do not clean the pinning out of your file, they will gouge the piece you are filing much deeper than your file is cutting and you will have made more work for yourself as you now have to properly clean your file and file out the gouges!

OK, Teaching Mode OFF...Aren't ya glad!

 

[bptactical]

Draw Filing is just firing up the manual milling machine ;-)

A hint- when “Draw filing”:
Always use the longest and widest file possible, it makes it easier to keep it square and level.
Tang to the left, draw the file towards you, tang to the right push the file away from you.
Some people find it easier to use one direction vs the other. Do what works for you.
Personally when I want something dead level and flat I tend to draw towards myself.
If I want to draw file in a small dedicated area I tend to push away from myself.
Relax, your body has its own way of finding flat.

Normal filing:
Worrying a file back and forth over your work does nothing but dull your files, the finer cut the file the faster it will dull. Keep this in mind with your jewelers files especially.
Always lift at the end of the stroke!
Don’t use just one small area of the file, you paid for the whole thing.
Make your strokes as long as possible.

I went to school for “Machine Technologies” right out of high school- 3 nights a week for 18 months.
I graduated 2nd in my class and I “knew” my shiznit.
NOT!
I went to work for an old Polish man in a little one horse shop machining anything that came through the door. He was 14 in WWII and had been working on an apprenticeship in a machine shop when the Nazis invaded Poland. That skill prevented him from likely going to a bad place and he actually machined components for the V2 rocket.
The reason I toss that out-
The first thing he had me do was hand me a rough chunk of hot roll and a 10” Mill Bastard file.
“Make me a cube 1” square, you can be .003 off dimension and 2 degrees off of 90.”
What?? I came here to be a machinist!
“Ven you make ze cube with file you feel the steel, you know the steel. Then you machine!”
It took me about a week and a half to do it but at the end I had a cube that measured .998 on each flat. If each flat is on dimension the 90 degree is easy. My fingers were raw but that man taught me to use a file. Some of the best learning experiences of my life were in that shop that was no larger than a 2 car garage.

Grab a bolt or a chunk of metal of some sort. Decide on what you want it to be then grab your file and get with it.
You will learn more on that than you realize and then you are ready to put file to rifle.

 

[Old-Duckman]

I went to work for an old Polish man in a little one horse shop
The first thing he had me do was hand me a rough chunk of hot roll and a 10” Mill Bastard file.
“Make me a cube 1” square, you can be .003 off dimension and 2 degrees off of 90.”
What?? I came here to be a machinist!
“Ven you make ze cube with file you feel the steel, you know the steel. Then you machine!”

Excellent story !

I took one of my early jewelry workshops from a fantastic gold/platnum-smith. He studied in Germany and I had read about his life and work in a magazine called "Lapidary Journal". In the article he tells the story of apprenticing with a German jeweler. When he had finished a piece and showed it to his master the man would do one of two things, he would either fire up a torch and melt the piece or put it on the floor and stomp on it and say "this would not last." When I met him personally I asked him how many times that had happened...his response "Not many."

I guess, as humans, the lessons we learn the best hurt a bit...but they "last".

 

[SwanShot]

What are some good options for metal working files? I have a bahco 8 inch bastard file, but it still seems to be a little too fine cut for removing a lot of metal.

A bastard is too fine??What are you trying to file down?