Messed up brass rod end, need help.

[Brokennock]

There ya go buddy.. that’s a generous offer that would take!

Agreed. Probably my only chance to ever own a piece of work by a master other craft whom I greatly admire, lol.

 

[Brokennock]

A little heat will get the wood out. Then a pair of needle nosed plyers will get the pin out. There's several items out there to fill the extra holes. Semper Fi.

Thanks. Heat was next on my list.

 

[Brokennock]

First of all, kudos to @dave_person ! A great post, and a kind offer.

I think I'm seeing two questions in @Brokennock 's original post... First, how to salvage the original tip, and second, where to get a replacement. I think the original tip is still usable, but it'll just have an extra hole in one side. I would agree that a 5/16" rod is really skinny, and if I were to make a new rod, I would do as Dave suggested and start with one the same diameter as the shank of the ramrod tip, cut a shoulder on it and file it down to a light press fit inside the ramrod tip. If the rod is too large for the ramrod pipes, it can be tapered down to fit.

I cross-pin ramrod tips when I install them, but drill a slightly undersized hole in the wood, and enlarge the holes in the metal sleeve to the diameter of the cross pin. Use a toothpick to put some epoxy in the hole and smear a little on the pin and drive it in. When the epoxy has cured, I cut the protruding ends of the crosspin off and file them flush. I don't peen them, and I've never seen one budge.

I don't know of a way to make the extra hole in the original tip invisible. If the tip is epoxied onto a new rod, some of the squeeze-out may fill it, but it will still be visible. However, I don't think the structural integrity of the brass tip is compromised, in any event.

Muzzleloader Builder's Supply has trade gun ramrod tips that are similar to the one on Brokennock's gun, but not identical. His has a really cool, single knurled ring on it, while the tips from MBS have three plain rings. This photo is from their website:

View attachment 213123

The end has a threaded hole, which you don't see in this photo, and they state that "These tips are made to be installed on a 3/8" ramrod and are caliber specific...," i.e. .58 caliber or .62 caliber. They get $4.50 for these, which I think is reasonable.

I don't own a French trade gun, but I have two Northwest guns. One was from North Star West, and the other from Caywood:

View attachment 213124

The gun on the right is from NSW and is 20 gauge. That's the original ramrod tip that came with it. The head of the rod is .562" diameter, and the rod is .351", or just a bit less than 3/8". The gun in the middle is from Caywood and is 24 gauge. The original rod that came with it is shown on the left. The head of the brass tip is .530" in diameter, and the rod is .420", slightly less than 7/16". The brass tip is nicely fitted to the rod. This rod had been blackened, and the tail was not tapered. The forward lock bolt impinged on it. I considered tapering the tail, and Danny told me he had "ebonized" the rod with black shoe polish (!) so I could touch up the finish, but I decided instead to just make a new rod from scratch, which is what you see in the gun. It is 1/2" at the tip (the largest diameter hickory rod I could get) tapered down to a good fit in the ramrod pipes and tapered a bit more at the tail to clear the lock bolt. It has a metal tip on the tail end that is threaded for accessories. I think I finished the wood with good old tung-based spar varnish, which is tough, waterproof, and I like the color.

Note that the end of the Caywood ramrod tip is cupped for a ball, while the NSW ramrod tip is flat, for what it's worth. Since I shoot mostly ball in these guns, I cupped the end of my homemade rod slightly. Probably not necessary, but there it is.

Here is a side view of the same guns and rods:

View attachment 213126

The ramrod tip on the NSW gun looks like a ringer for the one from Muzzleloader Builder's Supply. If you prefer the Caywood tip (the bottom one in the photo), it would not hurt to ask Mr. Caywood directly if he has them for sale. I'm not aware of any other source for them.

I don't know about French guns, but evidently ramrods on some Northwest guns had enlarged metal tips installed. This later-styled Northwest gun, now in the Buffalo Bill Center of the West Collection, was said to have been one of Frederic Remington's studio props. Note the enlarged tip on the ramrod:

View attachment 213125

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

Thank you for all that great information, a lot to digest. I will screenshot your reply for future reference.

 

[Rifleman1776]

If you cannot find a brass tip, and have a drill press perhaps make one from antler or bone, my smoothbore ram rod did not have a end piece and I made one from antler (elk) to stay away from the center of the antler as much as possible fit it to the rammer with a bit of two part epoxy and a small nail peened and sanded flush on the peens been working good for the last 10 years. If no antler the solid tip from a cow horn will work also.

Lot of good responses so far. This may be redundant. As AH said antler will work. But brass is easy to shape. Even without a lathe a drill press or clamped hand drill can serve as a lathe. I have used broken files for turning tools. Rods and tips should be considered as almost disposable items. They may last for years but back ups are highly recommended. I know, I had nearly 50 at one time. And, I'll betcha others here have the same or more.

 

[Brokennock]

Thank you to all responders.
To address a couple things mentioned by a few people.
The stock ramrod is 5/16" and fits the pipes well, a more standard 3/8" rod won't fit without being reduced. The gun shoots quite well with loads that don't require much force to load so I'm not concerned about the skinny rod.
This gun was my 1st flintlock and I didn't know about those handy tapered coil wire worms. I had the threaded hole put in the face of the tip, I don't think I've ever actually used it though.
I agree with @Notchy Bob that the knurled ring is what makes it cool,,, and apparently unique.
My friend, who drilled and tapped the face, and I initially thought that the face unscrewed at that ring to leave a hole for accessory attachment and was just stuck,,, but not the case.

I do also have a half inch hickory blank I hope to turn down someday to form a tapered rod that fits the pipes, leaving the business end full diameter. It's a matter of time, tools, space/place to work,,,,,, and confidence to do the job.

The biggest issue with the existing rod is that the end in the gun is getting chewed up and in danger of splitting. To clear the lock-bolt the end in the gun has the last few inches tapered flat.

It will only go in one way, when it hits the entry pipe in the wrong orientation, it gets beat up.
I plan to cut that bolt, removing a bit over 5/16" from the middle, solder the head to the side plate to keep the plate oriented, and thread the other end into the lock plate to help keep that as it should be.

Thank you again everyone who stepped up with help.

 

[Brokennock]

Hi Dave,
First, are you using the tip to mount a cleaning jag? Is that the reason for the threaded hole? If you are, I suggest a few changes. The tip should be flush with the wooden rod not pinned on top unless it fits really tight on the wood. Second, with clearance for tapped hole, you cannot have much length of rod inside the tip. The set up looks weak to me if you use it for ball pulling and cleaning. I suspect it was mounted originally just to be used as a rammer tip and you pinned it later thinking to use it to attach a jag? I think a new rod and tip is the best solution. The maker did not want to use a bigger diameter rod so the tip fit properly, and then have to taper it to fit the gun. Instead, on a 5/16" rod, he put a tip meant to be flush mounted on a 3/8" diameter rod. If you want Dave, cut the tip off and send it to me. I can make an exact replacement that you can fit to a 5/16" rod. PM me if you want to do that.

dave

I sent you a pm, not sure if you got it.
Thanks again.

 

[dave_person]

Hi Dave,
I was gone most of yesterday and today. I sent you a PM.

dave