Max loads for 54 cal. with prb

[Russ T Frizzen]

Fred, my .54 Hawken is very accurate with similar loads and is comfortable to shoot, too. At just under 10 pounds it isn't particularly heavy, but it fits me perfectly and recoil just is not a problem. While I wouldn't take a shot at a game animal at such ranges, it's fun to shoot at targets out to 200 yards and more just for the fun of it. I hit more than I miss--it's a great way to spend a day.

 

[pchwcf50110]

Just some actual hands on experience to mix in with some of the theory being bantered about:

1) I've personally run chronograph tests on multiple calibers in 10 grain increments from 30 to 120grns and there are significant enough velocity gains at every step to make it worth the while if someone simply wants more velocity.
If somebody wants to use a mid range target load of 70grns, that's certainly everyone's choice, but don't do it on the basis that powder charges above that give very little velocity gain as that is simply not true.

2) I've personally used published max load charges in 28" and 32" inch barrels, PRBs and conicals...all powder has been very efficiently consumed, accuracy has not gone south, and there has been no exponentially objectionable fouling.

3) Recoil and flinching are things that people let happen to people...they are easily controlled, mind over matter, etc. I just returned from a range trip this morning to rezero a Flintlock at 50yards with a new hunting load and to practice with it...fired a total of 50 shots out of a rifled .62cal, 100grns Goex 2F, oxyoke wad, .020" pillow ticking, .600"/325grn lead balls...an outstanding powerful hunting load.

my findings with the chrony and on the target are similar to roundball's. but i use British style rifles with broad shotgun butts and straight stock dimensions which are an entirely different animal than American frontier type rifles with cresent butts and lots of drop in the stock. i find those style of rifles to be a little brutal as to felt recoil.

 

[kevthebassman]

I don't think that recoil should be a factor with any roundball load out of a .54. Unless you're holding a crescent but into your shoulder like a dummie.

 

[bigbadben]

Ok, so I lied. I managed to sneak out to the range with it this afternoon. I gave my wife that pleading puppydog look and she let me go -despite the fact that I spent all morning at a different range, and will be spending most of tomorrow back at that range. I'm going to owe her big time.

The gun shoots nicely. I didn't get much perspective on loads yet though. I didn't think to bring my range rod with me (doh!!!). And when I got there I realized that none of my stuff was threaded the same as this rifle's rod. So I couldn't really even run a patch down the barrel. But it was fun to make it go boom a few times.

I worked with 80, 90, and 100. Each time I would tend to get two shots together and then the third off a bit to the right or left. (No wind, so don't go there. It was dumping rain straight down though -making the target a bit hazy.)

At any rate that leaves me optimistic that this thing may be accurate. But I definitely have some playing to do before I know for certain what it likes.

Ben

 

[PreglerD]

I agree with the others. A good load for your .54 with PRB is 90 grs FFg or PP. These load has enough power to bring a deer down, even an hog.

Remember, not the energy of the ball is so necessary, but more the place where it hits and what it destroys.

Regards

Kirrmeister

 

[bigbadben]

I should probably mention that part of why I'm interested in as much ooomph as possible is that I definitely plan to use this thing for black bear and moose. And moose 'r bigger than deer. Waaaaaay bigger. I went toe to toe with a ****** off moose while deer hunting up in Jackman, Maine last fall. I was way glad I had a big 300 mag in my hand. She was stomping and acting like she might charge me. But that's another story. After snorting a few times she left.

Depending on how things go I might use it for elk too. For that I would think more is better up to the point where accuracy really starts to go south.

And recoil from my GPR seems pretty mild, even with the stiffer loads. I shoot my 375 often enough to keep recoil in perspective.

Ben

 

[Little Wattsy]

Having been down the same path and getting countless responses re: "work up a load" You will most likley realize that your "max" safe load and your most accurate load are two very differant things.....I finally had to decide "Hit-em lighter or miss-em BIG" :wink:

 

[Fauquierfarmer]

TVM'S maximum recommended load is 100 grains-grain size not specified.They dont warrenty any greater load !!

Post is actually for BigBadBen.

 

[roundball]

I must be living a charmed life...I've never experienced this often referred to worrisome issue of there being an accurate load and a completely different, undesirable accuracy result when using a max/near max powder charge.

It makes me think of the old wives tale that "1:48" twists won't shoot PRBs accurately". TC barrels, and specifically including their shallow groove 1:48" barrels, shoot 100yd groups from 1+7/8" to 2+3/4" with full power max loads from TC's load data charts in the .45/.50/.54 calibers I've tested.

So for example, if somebody means using a midrange target load of 70grns would consistently deliver tighter groups of say 1+1/2" at 100yds instead of 2"...my thoughts are first, congratulations on outstanding shooting at 100yds, and second, that little difference at 100yds is of zero benefit at the expense of velocity and power at 100yds for hunting purposes.

Or if the differences being alledged truly are drastic differences like a change from a 2" group to an unusable 8" group, there's something else going on...if a significant change in powder charge is required to get decent groups I submit that's compensating for some other issue.

Other's mileage may vary of course... :thumbsup:

 

[BrownBear]

Or if the differences being alledged truly are drastic differences like a change from a 2" group to an unusable 8" group, there's something else going on...if a significant change in powder charge is required to get decent groups I submit that's compensating for some other issue.

Good points RB, especially that final one.

In my experience, the only thing that fits your description is more or less the opposite, and with lead conicals rather than round balls. You can sometimes get marginally stable conicals to shoot a couple of inches or so at 50, but then the group size will open up a bunch once you get out to 100- along the lines of 8" or more. The only way to improve that long range accuracy is to pump up the velocity as much as possible within pressure limits. It just seems that a marginally stable conical might shoot okay at 50 but start to wander as velocity drops further.

That has nothing to do with the original question about round balls, other than to help emphasize that I've never seen the same thing happen with round balls. If a load shoots well at 50 it will do so at 100 too. And an increase in charge to max isn't likely to make it shoot worse at long range where the extra velocity is a bonus for flatter trajectories. It's pretty academic for me cuzz I'm not a long range shooter at game and lesser charges seem to kill just fine at closer range. But if I was trying to stretch the range I'd be trying to flatten the trajectory too.

 

[bigbadben]

Range report time.

F-class shoot got cancelled today for rain, which is approaching biblical proportions up here in the northeast this summer.

So I snuck out and spent a few more hours at the range. It appears that with .535 balls and the TC Bore Butter pre-lubed patches the gun will shoot cloverleafs at 50 yards with either 90 or 100 grains of ffg.

I may try going over that, but the 100 load seems pretty stout. Once I get the groups centered I think I'll try it at 100 yds and see how much drop I get.

On that note: how much drop do you usually see with a 54-cal. prb between 50 and 100 yds? I assume I should file the sight until it's a few inches high at 50 and then it will be a few low at 100? Does that sound right?

I'm guessing that with prbs this will be about a 125-yard max range gun for deer, and 100-yard max range gun for moose, black bear, and bigger stuff (maybe more like 75).

Ben

 

[BrownBear]

Range report time.


On that note: how much drop do you usually see with a 54-cal. prb between 50 and 100 yds? I assume I should file the sight until it's a few inches high at 50 and then it will be a few low at 100? Does that sound right?

I'm guessing that with prbs this will be about a 125-yard max range gun for deer, and 100-yard max range gun for moose, black bear, and bigger stuff (maybe more like 75).

Ben

I've got both of my 54s right on at 75, which puts them roughly 3 low at 100, though I've done only a little shooting that far.

Other folks here use the 54 for deer to 125, and if you can make the shot, that sounds fine. Never tried it.

But for bigger stuff, moose and elk anyway, I'd inclined to limit it to 75, and mostly less. In my hands anyway, I wouldn't be trying for big stuff past 50, but then I don't shoot deer any further either.

 

[roundball]

On that note: how much drop do you usually see with a 54-cal. prb between 50 and 100 yds?

Since all my deer hunting is in pretty thick woods where the average shot is 30-50yds I zero everything at 50yds. With a 50yd zero, all my round ball deer loads drop about 4" at 100yds, regardless of caliber.

Longest RB deer shot I've ever taken was only 70 paces down an old loggers road one morning...buck stepped out of the woods onto the loggers road and stopped broadside...I was sitting against a tree, rested my off elbow on my chest and just held dead on like it was 50yds. The .530" made a complete passthrough of the heart/lung area, he bolted out through the trees and I saw him fall.

.54/.58/.62cal balls are some serious projectiles.

 

[tg]

".I've never experienced this often referred to worrisome issue of there being an accurate load and a completely different, undesirable accuracy result when using a max/near max powder charge."

I have only seen this with a couple of old Kentuckians I had in .45 cal. they would both be very good with 40-50 grains 3f but when I went higher particularly in the 70-80 gr range they opened up real bad, I suspect that a very shallow rifleing may have had something to do with it, I used them for hunting but kept my shots at 50 yds or less with 50 gr 3f, they were nice squirrel guns with 40 grains it was fun to dump a lot of tree rats in a morn of strollong thru the oaks and maples, one was a capper and the other a flint they were nice slim light little guns. I kind of wish I still had them just as a memento of sorts of the ML's of the 70's

 

[laufer]

90gr pyrodex rs (ffg) for elk and deer hunting.

90gr goex fffg for elk and deer hunting.

i've shot 130gr pyrodex from gpr, hits approx
1 1/2" to 2" above 90gr at 100 yards. using nubers and calcs, no more than 85gr of ffg will burn inside .54 brarel 32" long, so i do not use more than 90gr. so far it have not failed on deer and elk.

good shootin'!

 

[laufer]

forgot to explain- pyro with gpr, goexx with flntr.

 

[roundball]

"...no more than 85gr of ffg will burn inside .54 brarel 32" long..."

Several well established muzzleloading manufacturer's publish load data of 120grns FFg in such a barrel...even a shorter 28" barrel.

But you're saying they're all wrong, and that 35grns of powder...roughly a third of the 120grn powder charge...would not be burned in a .32" barrel ??

 

[laufer]

there is a formula (not by manufacturers) to calcualte how much powder burns ionside the brl, i used it and for 32" long brl x .54 cal w/ ffg powder it comes out to approx 85gr. please correct me if i am wrong, or if the manufacturer's data governs over scientific formulas, as i am learning too.
i use 90gr ffg and fffg and so far it worked for me and my game.
thanks.

 

[bigbadben]

Yeah, I'm curious about this question of how much powder my gun can burn before I'm just blowing it out the end and contributing to muzzle blast.

The gun has a 36" barrel, so it's on the shorter side. But I did notice that 100 grains of ffg shot about an inch higher at 50 yards than 90 grains. So I assume that means that I'm still getting something for that extra ten grains. I think I'll try 110 and see if the impact still rises. If not I'll call the 100-grain load good and sight in for that.

And if it ever stops raining here I'll shoot it over my chrono and see what that tells me.

Ben

 

[roundball]

"...there is a formula (not by manufacturers) to calcualte how much powder burns ionside the brl..."

In my opinion if you're using a "formula" that somebody gave to you, it should be stored right where it belongs...in a trash can. I use max or near max loads all the time and never have problems with unburned powder or having excessive fouling, and always realize ever increasing velocity increases through the chronograph with each increase in powder.

All of the well established muzzleloading manufacturers collectively have hundreds of years of professional knowledge and experience in their design/engineering departments...and anyone who claims to have some sort of "special formula" either got it out of a cracker jax box or has so much hot air in their head its putting pressure on their brain and they can't think straight.

Companies that know what they're talking about...Thompson Center, Lyman, Hodgdon, Knight, White, Goex, Swiss, Wano, etc, etc...and shooters who have a lot of actual hands on experience, are who you need to listen to.

:thumbsup: