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Mass. Woes...

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Guest
CANNON SHOT BACKFIRES
Militiaman faces loss of state permit
By Aaron Nicodemus, Worcester Telegram & Gazette Staff
December 6th, 2007

For more than two decades, Keith A. Downer of Sutton has been firing antique weapons ”“ muskets, cannons and the like. He’s a Revolutionary War buff, does demonstrations and re-enactments as part of the Sudbury Militia, and is one of those guys dressed like Revolutionary-era soldiers who fire off their muskets at Gillette Stadium after every Patriots score.

In June [2007], the militia was invited to fire a cannon to launch the parade for Framingham’s Flag Day celebration. Since the militia was performing a five-hour historical encampment for the festivities, it seemed a reasonable request.

On June 10, Mr. Downer said, he and his crew fired the cannon. The parade began.

Immediately afterward, angry Framingham Fire Department officials demanded to know who fired the cannon. Mr. Downer claimed responsibility and showed them his state cannon firing certification. When Deputy Fire Chief Albert Ordway Jr. demanded the names of the men in the firing crew, Mr. Downer refused to name them.

Deputy Chief Ordway told Mr. Downer that the Fire Department had no record of a permit ever being applied for, and that the department had not issued one. As a result, Fire Chief Ollie D. Gadson considered the cannon firing an illegal act. A day later, Mr. Downer was mailed a civil citation with a $100 fine.

Mr. Downer appealed to the Framingham Police Department, which sided with the Fire Department. Last month, a Framingham District Court judge dismissed a criminal charge, and all fines, against Mr. Downer.

But Chief Gadson has now gone after Downer’s state cannon firing certification.

On Tuesday, Chief Gadson, Deputy Chief Ordway and Assistant Fire Marshall Randy Smith faced off against Mr. Downer and his lawyer in a three-hour hearing before an arbitrator with the state fire marshal’s office. The arbitrator, Steven Rourke, could revoke Mr. Downer’s certification, or suspend it, or give him a written reprimand, or do nothing.

“The time and money that has been spent on this thing is just mind-boggling,” Mr. Downer said. Mr. Downer said. “Let’s put the time and effort into putting out fires, not trying to stop people from learning about our history.”

For more than two decades, Keith A. Downer of Sutton has been firing antique weapons ”” muskets, cannons and the like. He’s a Revolutionary War buff, does demonstrations and re-enactments as part of the Sudbury Militia, and is one of those guys dressed like Revolutionary-era soldiers who fire off their muskets at Gillette Stadium after every Patriots score.

In June, the militia was invited to fire a cannon to launch the parade for Framingham’s
Flag Day celebration. Since the militia was performing a five-hour historical encampment for the festivities, it seemed a reasonable request.

On June 10, Mr. Downer said, he and his crew fired the cannon. The parade began.

Immediately afterward, angry Framingham Fire Department officials demanded to know who fired the cannon. Mr. Downer claimed responsibility and showed them his state cannon firing certification. When Deputy Fire Chief Albert Ordway Jr. demanded the names of the men in the firing crew, Mr. Downer refused to name them.

Deputy Chief Ordway told Mr. Downer that the Fire Department had no record of a permit ever being applied for, and that the department had not issued one. As a result, Fire Chief Ollie D. Gadson considered the cannon firing an illegal act. A day later, Mr. Downer was mailed a civil citation with a $100 fine.

Mr. Downer appealed to the Framingham Police Department, which sided with the Fire
Department. Last month, a Framingham District Court judge dismissed a criminal charge, and all fines, against Mr. Downer.

But Chief Gadson has now gone after Downer’s state cannon firing certification.

On Tuesday, Chief Gadson, Deputy Chief Ordway and Assistant Fire Marshal Randy Smith faced off against Mr. Downer and his lawyer in a three-hour hearing before an arbitrator with the state fire marshal’s office. The arbitrator, Steven Rourke, could revoke Mr. Downer’s certification, or suspend it, or give him a written reprimand, or do nothing.

“The time and money that has been spent on this thing is just mind-boggling,” Mr. Downer said. “Let’s put the time and effort into putting out fires, not trying to stop people from learning about our history.”

In the hearing, Chief Gadson told the arbitrator that Mr. Downer was irresponsible for firing the cannon without a permit.

“It’s not every day we have events such as a cannon firing in the town of Framingham, and as the fire chief, I would like to know when these events are taking place,” he said. “What bothers me is that he (Mr. Downer) has never accepted the responsibility that one would have in order to have this certification. He’s incompetent, as far as I’m concerned.”

At the hearing, Mr. Downer refused to answer direct questions about whether he fired the cannon, or whether he applied for a permit. His lawyer, Anthony Salerno of Worcester, said his answers could be used against Mr. Downer in a subsequent criminal complaint.

In a previous interview with the Telegram & Gazette, Mr. Downer said the confusion around the permit revolved around the Flag Day event organizer, Doug Freeman.

A few days before the event, Mr. Downer received an e-mail from Mr. Freeman that said the cannon firing was “all set.”

Mr. Freeman later told Mr. Downer that he had spoken to the town Fire Department, and that
Mr. Downer would have to go to the Fire Department himself and apply for a permit. Mr. Downer, a court officer who supervises several courts in Worcester County, never applied for the permit.

On the day of the firing, Mr. Downer said, he asked Mr. Freeman whether everything was squared away. Mr. Freeman told him yes. Since the parade was a town event, and since it was common in other communities for permits and fees to be waived for town events, Mr. Downer believed the Fire Department had given its OK, even though all he had was Mr. Freeman’s word. He never went to take out the permit himself, he said.

Mr. Freeman did not return two calls from the Telegram & Gazette, nor did he return a call from Mr. Downer.

Chief Gadson said the first time he learned that a cannon might be fired at the Flag Day
Celebration was three days before, in a newspaper article. In that article, Mr. Freeman was quoted as saying that the militia “is still waiting on permits from the Fire Department.”

Chief Gadson said he called Mr. Freeman that day, and told him that whoever wants to fire a cannon has to come and apply for a permit.

In the hearing, Mr. Salerno asked Chief Gadson if he knew whether the cannon was fired negligently.

The chief said “no.”

Mr. Salerno asked if he or any member of his department inspected the cannon.

Again, no.

He asked if he or any member of his department had done any investigation into the matter, talked to any eyewitnesses, or talked to Mr. Downer. No again.

He asked if Chief Gadson knew what type of cannon was fired. No again.

Had anyone talked to anyone in his department about a permit? Mr. Salerno asked.

“It didn’t matter to me if he talked to anyone; I’m the chief,” he said. “There was no permit issued.”
 
It didn’t matter to me if he talked to anyone; I’m the chief,”

Really great to be king. You can screw over the underlings.
Old Charlie
 
When did the shooting of a cannon become the business of a Fire Chief? What is a Cannon Permit?
 
What a total waste of taxpayers dollars, time and energy because of a pissing contest because someone's ego was bruised.

Sounds like a case of overzealous hoseheaditis.
 
Framingham is your typical far left wing town of Massachusetts. That scenario did not surprise me at all.Some safety nazi got his shorts pulled up and had to show who is boss.

One of the joys of living in this state.If you live in a town such as Framingham, they make it miserable to be a gun owner and sportsman. It is a real shame because people like him add character to special events. All it will do is encourage such people to forget attending such events and even contemplate moving out of the Bay State.
 
Are the guys at the Fire Dept pretty up on Cannon construction ., and safety., have they all read the Complete Cannoneer? Do Fire guys fight fires..., or would that be a good place for me to go to learn about propper cannon construction? Who taught the Chief to know what he is talking about..., what are his "Cannon Credentials" ? Is he an expereinced 20+ year re-enactment veteran?., Who got hurt (no-one)? isnt this the same state that allowed the gays to marry a year or two ago..., Ted Kennedy is from there isnt he?...Was'nt that the place John Kerry was from ? I am not sure whats going on in Mass. but it sounds like I dont want to go there., doesnt sound NRA friendly..., Do people there have 2nd amendment rights? This just sounds like more reason for me to move a little further south.

I would question his authority ...., then his credentials and then ask who provides him his authority . Actually I did not know a person even needed permission to fire a cannon at all......, I know of NO-ONE who gets permission . So...., its not a free country if your from Mass. ?
All it will do is encourage such people to forget attending such events and even contemplate moving out of the Bay State.
Yes . Already happened.
 
Your rights are severely restricted depending on the town you live in. Framingham has always been that way. That is the home of former state senator Cheryl Jacques that helped in making the gun laws even further draconian.

In this state it doesn't matter what level of knowledge an official has, they have the power. I remember giving a class( handgun safety) to some guys from Springfield. They worked in another town and so the police chief being more open minded in the small town issued licenses to carry without restrictions. Try that in Sprinfield without being a VIP. That is an example of what you get.Some towns, officials themselves are hunters and shooter so they don't get too wired up over regulations. When you get places like Framingham, Springfield and other large cities, they try to mimic Joseph Stalin.

Myself, I am looking to move north of he once I sell my cottage. New Hampshire is much better in regards to freedom loving.
 
Thank God I live in a red state. I've never heard of a cannon permit. I'm told that some states even make you get a permit to have guns!?! How about a permit to worship God or talk about politics????
 
This sorta bums me out Mass has so much of our Rev War sites and things to see..., including the U.S.S. Constitution. Lots of good history there.
 
I know that in Massachusetts you need a powder permit that is issued from the fire department. That in itself is a pain at times. If you buy powder in Massachusetts, you have to show the permit but the fire department wants you to keep it posted where the powder is. What logic is there in that?
 
It's one of the smallest states tryng to set the tone for the rest of the country. :barf:
I am glad I live in the midwest even with our problems of unemployment and a horrible liberal governor who came from canada( come back and get her guys it won't hurt our feelings).
 
No thanks. We have quite enough of them as it is. Send her over to England maybe. In the last election, the Liberal party said they would BAN all handguns if elected. They lost, thank God, but they are waiting in the wings.
 
im lucky to live around the towns in MA that every one owns a gun, this state is a socalist hell hole. i cant wait to get out and escape to NH
 
evan9201 said:
im lucky to live around the towns in MA that every one owns a gun, this state is a socalist hell hole. i cant wait to get out and escape to NH


Jesus, escape to NH? How much better could it really be? You're still living around a bunch of New England Yankees. I'm looking forward to escaping from Missouri to get further away from the big city Democrats!
 
humm lets see in MA you need a licence to own a gun, we have a AWB, we cant have certain handguns, our LTC is dictated by the town cheif, you need to be 21 to carry and in NH,ME or VT you need none of those... live free or die.

mass is a bunch of moonbat liberals, NH,VT and ME are full of old time consertive yankee folk just like me :thumbsup:
 
bigbore442001 said:
I know that in Massachusetts you need a powder permit that is issued from the fire department. That in itself is a pain at times. If you buy powder in Massachusetts, you have to show the permit but the fire department wants you to keep it posted where the powder is. What logic is there in that?

you need a firearms identifaction card (FID) to buy blackpower or caps. you need the FD permit if you have over so many pounds of it stored in your house.
 
2008 election will be very important to gun owners. Traditional, inline, cartridge, We have to be together. Join a lobby group. Write your reps. They take away our rights a little tiny bit at a time.
 
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