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I was just wondering if anybody has worked with making figure pop in cherry like maple. Will you get similar results with aqua fortis or is there a better method?
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Making figure "pop"
- Thread starter Commodore Swab
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Pete G
76 Cal.
A/F will turn cherry black. Use sodium hydroxide (lye) instead.
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Hi Commodore,
I'll share a few hard learned techniques but first look at the guns below. The cherry stocks were stained as I describe.
Cherry is finely grained and often is a bit boring because the grain does not show up prominently. Also, figure in cherry tends to be monochromatic with the curl or figure just a slightly different shade of the other colors. As a result, chatoyance is shallow and kind of flat. Chatoyance is the shimmering or "cat's eye" effect when viewing wood under light at different angles. So to me, the secret to cherry is to 1) add a darker shadow effect to the grain to highlight it, and 2) add color sometimes in layers. For a shadow effect, I stain cherry with a black, dark red, or dark brown aniline dye. The stain is fairly dilute. When dry, I scrape and sand off the color leaving the dark color embedded in the grain and soft parts of any figure. Then I stain again with a strong reddish brown aniline dye or you could use lye instead. That deepens the natural reddish brown of the wood and simulates age. Finally, I may add more red or orange on top if I feel the wood needs it.
dave
I'll share a few hard learned techniques but first look at the guns below. The cherry stocks were stained as I describe.
Cherry is finely grained and often is a bit boring because the grain does not show up prominently. Also, figure in cherry tends to be monochromatic with the curl or figure just a slightly different shade of the other colors. As a result, chatoyance is shallow and kind of flat. Chatoyance is the shimmering or "cat's eye" effect when viewing wood under light at different angles. So to me, the secret to cherry is to 1) add a darker shadow effect to the grain to highlight it, and 2) add color sometimes in layers. For a shadow effect, I stain cherry with a black, dark red, or dark brown aniline dye. The stain is fairly dilute. When dry, I scrape and sand off the color leaving the dark color embedded in the grain and soft parts of any figure. Then I stain again with a strong reddish brown aniline dye or you could use lye instead. That deepens the natural reddish brown of the wood and simulates age. Finally, I may add more red or orange on top if I feel the wood needs it.
dave
Even lye water will darken cherry a lot. It works by raising the tannin in the wood to the surface and cherry has quite a bit of it.
As for making things like stripes "pop", it only really works on a wood that has curl.
Curly wood's grain isn't straight like regular wood grain. It grows in a wavy pattern, somewhat like the waves on a lake or ocean.
It looks like the grain in this sketch.
When a wave meets the surface of the wood, some of the "end grain" is exposed. This end grain absorbs more of the lye water and releases more tannin than the parallel grains between the waves do. That makes the stripes darker leaving the area between the waves fairly light.
If the "figure" in your cherry wood is due to some end grain exposed to the surface, lye water will help. If the figure is only due to discolorations between it and the adjacent wood, lye water will not do much beyond making the entire surface darker.
The best way to find out what is happening is to try some lye water. Do NOT use a hair brush to apply it. Lye will dissolve hair (and your skin if it gets on it), and be sure to wear safety glasses. Just a speck of lye water can blind you.
(Suggestion: Have some vinegar handy. If you suddenly feel an intense burning on your skin, douse it with vinegar. That feeling is a speck of lye water dissolving your skin.)
As for making things like stripes "pop", it only really works on a wood that has curl.
Curly wood's grain isn't straight like regular wood grain. It grows in a wavy pattern, somewhat like the waves on a lake or ocean.
It looks like the grain in this sketch.
When a wave meets the surface of the wood, some of the "end grain" is exposed. This end grain absorbs more of the lye water and releases more tannin than the parallel grains between the waves do. That makes the stripes darker leaving the area between the waves fairly light.
If the "figure" in your cherry wood is due to some end grain exposed to the surface, lye water will help. If the figure is only due to discolorations between it and the adjacent wood, lye water will not do much beyond making the entire surface darker.
The best way to find out what is happening is to try some lye water. Do NOT use a hair brush to apply it. Lye will dissolve hair (and your skin if it gets on it), and be sure to wear safety glasses. Just a speck of lye water can blind you.
(Suggestion: Have some vinegar handy. If you suddenly feel an intense burning on your skin, douse it with vinegar. That feeling is a speck of lye water dissolving your skin.)
Col. Batguano
75 Cal.
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Yeah. Lye burns can be as bad as acid burns. Wear rubber gloves and eye protection around that stuff.
If you let it dry on its' own it leaves behind a powdery dust that can cause you the dickens to get removed out of crevices like intricate carving, or carving undercuts. Best to apply it, let it do its' thing, and then hose it off thoroughly with fresh water while it's still wet. You can always repeat the application if you feel like you need another treatment.
If you let it dry on its' own it leaves behind a powdery dust that can cause you the dickens to get removed out of crevices like intricate carving, or carving undercuts. Best to apply it, let it do its' thing, and then hose it off thoroughly with fresh water while it's still wet. You can always repeat the application if you feel like you need another treatment.
I forgot to mention, if lye water is applied to the wood, two or more coats doesn't seem to do much if anything to intensify the dark/light areas of the curl.
Also, as Col. Batguano says, the dry powder is raw lye and it must be either washed off or neutralized.
I give the stock a coating of vinegar after the lye treatment dries. One good coat of vinegar will do the job and make handling the stock safe.
Also, as Col. Batguano says, the dry powder is raw lye and it must be either washed off or neutralized.
I give the stock a coating of vinegar after the lye treatment dries. One good coat of vinegar will do the job and make handling the stock safe.
Scota@4570
54 Cal.
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Lye is nasty stuff. Dry lye can have a tiny flake goes airborne during handling. IF it lands in your eye it will really mess you up. Lye is insidious, it will cause the part of you it lands on to turn to soap. It will get slick and watery. It will only itch a little. The damage can be serious.
Lye is also not sold in some areas due to meth cooks using it. Oven cleaner is also a lye based caustic, it might be worth trying.
Lye is also not sold in some areas due to meth cooks using it. Oven cleaner is also a lye based caustic, it might be worth trying.
Pete G
76 Cal.
Drain cleaner mixed with water also works well.
The lye I use is drain cleaner. I bought it at the local Ace Hardware store in the plumbing section.
It not only works on wood but it actually does dissolve the hair and other organic stuff that collects in a drain.
It not only works on wood but it actually does dissolve the hair and other organic stuff that collects in a drain.
Col. Batguano
75 Cal.
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I used it as a neutralizer for FN crystals. It made a big difference in the color (more orangish) and the figure seemed to pop better than when I used ammonia as the neutralizing agent. As far as I know, you have your choice of ammonia, baking soda, or lye, but there may some others.
It's worth experimenting with as you are doing your test strips to see if you like it. I find the staining and finish experimentation process to be one of the most enjoyable aspects of building. I bet I tried 25-30 different concoctions on the last build before I settled on what I did..
It's worth experimenting with as you are doing your test strips to see if you like it. I find the staining and finish experimentation process to be one of the most enjoyable aspects of building. I bet I tried 25-30 different concoctions on the last build before I settled on what I did..
kansas_volunteer
45 Cal.
Potassium dichromate is also good on cherry. It gives an aged look, like cherry gets over long exposure to light and air. It is considered a carcinogen so must be handled as carefully as lye. A whole lot of things are considered to be potential causes of cancer so I'm not overly concerned by it as long as it is handled with respect. Woodworking supply businesses have stopped selling it, but can still be found on eBay.
