Lyman ?

Discussion in 'Flintlock Rifles' started by boker, Dec 5, 2018.

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  1. Dec 5, 2018 #1

    boker

    boker

    boker

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    Great plans hunter . 54 caliber.
    Located new $599 used $400

    (I have never seen one in person and I have a few questions)

    What a Honest assessment of these rifles?

    ( I know it’s a production rifle and isn’t comparable to a custom gun )

    However how close are they to being period correct?

    Cap vs flintlock version?

    Are they a good value for the money?

    Is there enough difference in quality and value to spend $500+ more on a custom gun for a average person that only shoots and hunts a few times a year?
     
  2. Dec 5, 2018 #2

    Logcutter

    Logcutter

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    I'm glad you asked that Boker. I am in my third season of hunting with a flintlock and I'm totally hooked. So I want a better rifle than what I have and I'm saving my cash while I try to decide what I should buy. Thing is I shoot left handed so that makes it all the tougher to find a nice used rifle I can afford. So I have been eyeballing the Great Plains rifle but I don't know.
     
  3. Dec 5, 2018 #3

    Zonie

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    The Great Plains Hunter is a fast twist, shallow rifling groove version of the Lyman Great Plains Rifle. It's barrel is designed to shoot modern bullets and although it will sometimes shoot patched roundballs they usually aren't very accurate unless very light (small) powder loads are used.

    The GPH and GPR stylewise are quite close to the plains rifles used during the late fur trade period in the mid 1800's.
    They are not "Hawkens" and don'[t pretend to be although they do have a lot of the features of the Hawken rifles. Perhaps the only thing that stands out as being really different is they have a "perch belly" shape on the lower area of the stock. The Hawken and many other plains rifles had a straight shape in this area.

    Cap vs Flint? That's a personal choice each of us must make for ourselves.
    The Flint type can be a bit fussy. They work very poorly or not at all using modern synthetic black powders like Pyrodex and Triple Se7en. The flint wears when the gun is shot and if it becomes dull it needs to be knapped and readjusted.
    There is a additional learning curve to figuring out how to get a flintlock to be 95% reliable. That's one of the reasons people enjoy shooting them.

    The cap style can use the modern synthetic black powders and they tend to be less fussy which makes them closer to a modern gun. That said, they still are old technology and don't always work as well as modern guns. I guess that's one of the reasons people like to shoot them.

    Of the factory guns, I rate the Lyman Great Plains as one of the better ones available today. They can't approach the quality of a well made custom gun but on the other hand, they are as good if not better than poorly made custom gun at a price that is considerably less.
     
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  4. Dec 5, 2018 #4

    burlesontom

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    They are good rifles. I have had my 50 cal cap gun since the mid 1990's. Its not for sale either. And with round balls its a great shooter. t even handles the Lee REAL 320gr bullets I have well enough to hunt deer with.

    But I personally would hold out for the slow twist version. But thats just me.
     
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  5. Dec 5, 2018 #5

    Carbon 6

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    Lyman rifles are made in Italy by Investarms. They have been making muzzleloaders since 1975 and are still in business so they must be doing something right.
    One of the big advantages for Americans is that it is easy to get parts for lyman rifles compared to other manufacturers like Traditions, CVA, Thompson Center, and Pedersdoli.
    At least for now.

    Investarm describes themselves as, "good value for money related to quality" and I completely agree. The Investarm that I have has been a great rifle.
     
  6. Dec 5, 2018 #6

    Rat

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    Yes, I'd not get the fast-twist rifle. I think they are very close to "period correct", probably more post-fur trade/Santa Fe trail type of rifle. They are certainly very nice looking rifles. I built one from a kit, for a friend's son. Although I much prefer a flintlock, on the mass produced guns the flintlock locks are not always "great". But I think there are good replacement locks for the GPR. ?? But you might want to figure that into the cost ahead of time, if you go flint. Otherwise, if you are not an experienced flinter-shooter, I think I'd go with a cap. ?? Sometimes, getting a lower quality, mass produced flintlock lock to work good can be frustrating, and if not experienced with them...more frustrating. And having said that, sometimes they work fine. !!!

    I think the difference between cap and flint comes down more to one's level of, or love for, attention to detail. To my mind, that is what flintlocks are about, attention to detail. (and of course, the cool factor is through the roof!) (and yes, the roof is on fire)

    Now, I believe spending more money on a custom rifle is more than well worth the money. But really, we are talking more like in the $1000.00+ range, than $500+, for a good custom rifle. Consider how much someone pays for a new car, drives it five years or less, and the sells it or trades it in at a $10,000 or more loss. Spend $1500.00 on a fine rifle, and you cherish it forever, regardless of how much you hunt, (and may find yourself hunting much more) and then hopefully hand it down to someone who will cherish it. Just a thought. But I don't think spending one hundred bucks or a little more will get you anything better, or very much better. than a GPR. ??
     
  7. Dec 5, 2018 #7

    BrownBear

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    In my eyes, that's a good and fair summary of their standing. A guy has to do a little fiddling with them to make them 100% (trigger, nipple on cap guns, sharp crown and rifling), but it's easy to do and worth the effort. Once they're broken in a little, they're reliable and accurate.
     
  8. Dec 5, 2018 #8

    Flint62Smoothie

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    Reducing the sear spring pressure goes a long way to improving the Investarms trigger pull ...
     
  9. Dec 6, 2018 #9

    Huntschool

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    boker:

    With the bucks you should have gotten from the sale of that Jack Garner built gun you should be able to drop some bucks on any gun you want..... I would think.

    As Rat said; " I believe spending more money on a custom rifle is more than well worth the money. But really, we are talking more like in the $1000.00+ range, than $500+, for a good custom rifle. Spend $1500.00 on a fine rifle, and you cherish it forever, regardless of how much you hunt, (and may find yourself hunting much more) and then hopefully hand it down to someone who will cherish it."

    To each his own..... But the quality shows in the long run.

    JMHO
     
  10. Dec 6, 2018 #10

    smo

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    GPR’s are great Rifles , lots of Folks cut their teeth on them.

    It was my first venture into the World of Flint.

    I sure wouldn’t take $400 for mine, even if you can buy a new one for $600.

    Quality of the fit & finish has declined over the years, so the better ones are the older ones . IMHO.

    The price of the older model GPR’s will continue to climb just like the older TC guns.

    They were all great guns and have counted many coup ....

    There’s some truth to the old saying,
    “ They don’t make em’ like they used too”.
     
  11. Dec 6, 2018 #11

    boker

    boker

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    Thanks guys, I actually miss quoted my post. I was meaning the slow twist GPR by Lyman. I got $850 dollars for my Jack Garner poor boy. As my other post says I am thinking about getting a custom gun built, however I was toying with the idea of picking up a $400 gpr I found and saving the rest for a rainy day or till I learn more about the exact custom gun I want to have built.
     
  12. Dec 6, 2018 #12

    Logcutter

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    Read all the replies and filed it away. Appreciate the information. If I buy a rifle at all and not a smooth bore it will have a slow twist as I like to shoot PRB. The smooth bore interest me because I also like to hunt squirrel and turkey. I'd also use it for deer as my shots are rarely over 60 yards and most closer.
     
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  13. Dec 6, 2018 #13

    boker

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    I was think about going smooth bore as well. I ha e always want to small game hunt with a black powder firearm , however where I deer hunt typical shots are 75/100 yards
     
  14. Dec 6, 2018 #14

    BrownBear

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    Don't overlook the ability of the GPR in both 50 and 54 caliber to shoot reduced loads for head-shooting small game. All of ours will print ragged hole groups at 25 yards with 30-35 grains of 3f (or Pyrodex P) under a PRB. Best of all, with the rifles sighted in at 75 yards using big game loads, those reduced loads are right on the money at 25 yards and only an inch or so low at 50. Really, really good to get all that field time with the rifle popping small game before time to switch to big game.
     
  15. Dec 6, 2018 #15

    Logcutter

    Logcutter

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    Good Point Brown Bear. I know of a guy in my area that hunts ground hogs all summer with his flinter. The guy is deadly with his flintlock's at ranges I can't even see clearly let alone hit.
     
  16. Dec 7, 2018 #16

    Greenjoytj

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    I have a Lyman GPR in 54 cal with the flintlock.
    My complaints are:
    1) The crescent but plate ends are too pointy. If you don’t place the but plate out on your arm the rifle is going to let you know you goofed, is gone to hurt. I’ve learned to hold it right.
    2) The little screw in the trigger guard plate it seems to do nothing that I can detect. Removed it and stored it.
    3) The sights are poor. The front is way to thick and the adjustable rear sight is to flimsy won’t hold zero. I replaced my sights with the Lyman adjustable target rear and globe front. These sight work good.
    4) the ram rod need to be replaced with better stronger wood glued and cross pinned. I use Delrin plastic rod that I’ve glued and cross pinned.
    5) The angle of the pistol grip is off it just doesn’t feel like a modern rifle. I’ve had the gun fro several years and I’m still trying to get use to the odd feel off the grip.

    I replaced the OEM vent liner with a RMC stainless steel liner, just because I felt the replacement line was an improvement in reliability.
    I still use the cut flints because they always worked for me. Even though I have a bunch English hand knapped flint spares.
    I bought a few extra stock wedges cause I loose them occasionally.
     
  17. Dec 7, 2018 #17

    burlesontom

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    Yes the buttplate is pointy and used incorrectly it does hurt. We call it the "buttplate from hell".

    That little screw was so you can adjust the front trigger after you set the rear trigger as to how much pressure is needed to fire the gun. They are cut at the factory so they can't be adjusted any further. I replaced mine with a slightly longer screw and have my triggers a little more sensitive. The screw in metric by the way. I suggest you reinstall the screw or replace it with a slightly longer screw to add more adjustment.

    I thinned my front sight to .080 thick. Never had any problems with the adjustable rear sight.

    I replaced my ramrod with a plastic Wonder Rod from Mountain State muzzleloading.

    These have a straight grip stock and are not like a modern "Pistol Grip" stock. I like straight stocks especially on lever guns.
     
  18. Dec 8, 2018 #18

    Gene L

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    Mine is from 1995, a cap gun and is very good. The fit from wood to metal is excellent for a factory gun and the wood is very good, too. I took off the adjustable sight and installed a fixed sight, which I like better. I browned mine when I first got it (I remember, it was January in NC and there was snow on the ground.) I can't remember why exactly, except I like brown more than blue, and I've never looked back. It's not anything like a custom built rifle, but it shoots just fine (.50) and Hawken custom rifles don't look all that great...they're plain rifles. I don't own a factory flint gun, but my two semis are not fancy at all...iron and +++ maple.
     
  19. Dec 8, 2018 #19

    reddog

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    What kind of glue did you use that sticks to Delrin?
     
  20. Dec 9, 2018 #20

    Greenjoytj

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    I have used RTV silicone or J-B Weld slow setting epoxy.
    Both worked, but I favour the epoxy for its chemical cure rather than solvent evaporation with silicone. My rod end fitting is screwed on plus getts cross pinned with a 1” brad nail. The glue fills in any gaps, prevents wiggling and the cross pin let’s me turn the rod in CW or CCW with out fear of the end fitting coming unscrewed.
     

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