Lyman Great Plains signature series (Pedersoli).

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TreeMan

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I just unboxed this new flintlock pedersoli GPR rifle from Midsouth Shooters supply this morning ($782) First off I will say that I also have a percussion investarms made Great Plains I purchased new last year for comparison. Upon inspecting this new flintlock signature series GPR all I can say is wow! There is no comparison when it comes to fit and finish between the Pedersoli made one compared to the investarms one. The investarms GPR is a very nice utilitarian rifle. It shoots like a dream. The trigger on it was replaced by a Davis deerslayer because the factory trigger sucked. All the inletting on it was overdone, too deep and in general pretty bad. Now on to the Pedersoli GPR. Inletting on it is darn near perfect. Every detail on the Pedersoli GPR is pretty much perfect. I don’t have an investarms flintlock lock to compare to this one but this a vary large lock. The touchhole alignment is spot on. The trigger is as good at the Davis deerslayer I have in my other rifle. FYI..the Davis trigger will not fit into this signature series rifle. The trigger group and trigger guard is totally different. Set trigger pull is very nice without any adjustment needed. Rifling is not as deep in this rifle as in the investarms gun though. The dark black blueing on this rifle is perfect on all parts. I would much prefer everything to be rust browned but for now I’ll leave it as is. The wood on this rifle is a nice piece of walnut. The modern furniture grade finish on it is blasphemy in my eyes. That will get stripped, stained and oil finished. Pics to follow.
 

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It appears that the pan is cut deeper in front of the touchhole so that when the primer is put in the pan the touchhole will be covered. It is difficult to tell in the picture for sure. Just curious if I am seeing that right or if it is the picture. Thanks.

Dave
 

TreeMan

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It appears that the pan is cut deeper in front of the touchhole so that when the primer is put in the pan the touchhole will be covered. It is difficult to tell in the picture for sure. Just curious if I am seeing that right or if it is the picture. Thanks.

Dave
I think it’s just the angle of the pic. The touch hole is just a smidge forward though.
 

TreeMan

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I’m blessed to have range here at my house. I can go straight from the box to the shooting bench. Some of you may call me a liar but I loaded her up with 80 grain of 2F, a .530 Rb with 018 patch. Held dead on at 25 and this was the first shot off the bench. Now if they all do that I’ll be a happy fat man!!
 

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leadhoarder

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I have been eyeballing those. I am a novice when it comes to these traditional rifles but I already know I want a flintlock now and those look pretty nice to me. I know I like my percussion GPR but the wood to metal fitting leaves a lot to be desired in some areas, Especially the tang.
 

Musketeer

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I’m blessed to have range here at my house. I can go straight from the box to the shooting bench.
I hate you sooo much....🤬 Not really, that's very cool, but I am several shades of green with envy. 😄

Pedersoli builds quality stuff. They have issues from time to time, like anyone else, but overall they are great. I have zero complaints with my Pedersolis. I'm glad you're happy with this one. Thanks for the great pics, too.
 

BigAl52

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Ive have seen alot of comments about the price of Pedersolis. But I feel like you are getting a good gun for what you spent for yours. I like them myself and would not hesitate to buy one if I didn’t already have the Investarms version. Nice rifle and great job shooting it
 

Capnball

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I just unboxed this new flintlock pedersoli GPR rifle from Midsouth Shooters supply this morning ($782) First off I will say that I also have a percussion investarms made Great Plains I purchased new last year for comparison. Upon inspecting this new flintlock signature series GPR all I can say is wow! There is no comparison when it comes to fit and finish between the Pedersoli made one compared to the investarms one. The investarms GPR is a very nice utilitarian rifle. It shoots like a dream. The trigger on it was replaced by a Davis deerslayer because the factory trigger sucked. All the inletting on it was overdone, too deep and in general pretty bad. Now on to the Pedersoli GPR. Inletting on it is darn near perfect. Every detail on the Pedersoli GPR is pretty much perfect. I don’t have an investarms flintlock lock to compare to this one but this a vary large lock. The touchhole alignment is spot on. The trigger is as good at the Davis deerslayer I have in my other rifle. FYI..the Davis trigger will not fit into this signature series rifle. The trigger group and trigger guard is totally different. Set trigger pull is very nice without any adjustment needed. Rifling is not as deep in this rifle as in the investarms gun though. The dark black blueing on this rifle is perfect on all parts. I would much prefer everything to be rust browned but for now I’ll leave it as is. The wood on this rifle is a nice piece of walnut. The modern furniture grade finish on it is blasphemy in my eyes. That will get stripped, stained and oil finished. Pics to follow.
As if I couldn't like that rifle more. Can't wait to hear how it shoots and see the hardware upgrade.
 

TreeMan

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My groups at 50 yards averaged about 2-inches using the same load mentioned in my first post. I honestly think it would do better off of a better bench/bags/rest and with a set of better eyes. The set trigger is as nice and any production or custom gun I've shot or owned. The lock is nice and fast for a production gun. I shot at least 50 rounds and had one flash in the pan and one slow hang fire. Both my fault for not picking my touch hole. The flint needed knapped at about round 25. Curiously the lock came with a real black flint wrapped in lead. Every Pedersoli I’ve ever bought came with a fake cut flint and some sort of rubber/plastic wrap. After the success I had shooting with the lead wrap I’ll have to experiment with a leather wrap to compare on this rifle. I’ve tried both on other rifles and could never really tell a difference in lock time or ignition. After my range session I stripped everything down to clean. I disassembled the stock and started stripping off the hideous modern wood finish. I’m in the process now of staining and oil finishing the stock. The bluing is so nice I’ll leave it as is and skip the browning. I’ll post pics of the finished product. After going over this gun I’ll say that this rifle has very little in common with the Lyman/investarms Great Plains rifle. Barrel, trigger, rifling depth and everything else is Pedersoli Rocky Mountain hawken with a plain walnut stock. For the price you are getting a way less expense Pedersoli hawken with a plain walnut stock not an improved Great Plains rifle.
 
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Capnball

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I like that it's already a pretty nice rifle but that there's room to make it even nicer. I've seen some period weapons in museums that were carried by people for decades. You can actually see what was done to the gun over time either to correct damage or doll it up.
BTW, I have a Pedersoli Kentucky long rifle flintlock in .45. shoots as good as it looks.
Neil
 
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Notchy Bob

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Thank you, Treeman, for the review and pictures!

I have been curious with regard to the triggers. Original Hawken rifles had the triggers on a very long bar, which extended well down the wrist. The trigger guard was affixed directly to the trigger bar. The tang of the standing breech was quite long, also extending down the wrist, and the two tang bolts passed all the way through the wrist to engage the trigger bar, with the wood sandwiched in between, like this (from John Baird, Hawken Rifles):

IMG_1841.JPG


This provided extra reinforcement to the wood, in what is probably the weakest and most frequently broken area of the stock. I was hoping the Great Plains Signature (GPS) rifles would have a similar arrangement, but it appears to be made with a more traditional short trigger bar, with the guard attached with wood screws (photo by Treeman, cropped and rotated):

GPSig 1.1.jpeg


Interestingly, the scroll of the GPS does appear to have a protruding screw, attaching the scroll to that short base. From the side, this does give the appearance of a more Hawken-style triggerguard. I think the Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken has the long trigger base, more like the original St. Louis Hawkens, but I don't own one and can't say for sure. The Investarms Great Plains Rifle (GPR) triggerguard was a solid casting, with some extra material at the base of the scroll (photo from Track of the Wolf, edited):

GPR Near Side (2).jpg


I know this is nit-picking, and in no way am I criticizing Treeman's rifle. It's a beauty! It's just that comparisons of these rifles to original Hawkens are both interesting and inevitable, and "the devil is in the details." Overall, the Lyman/Pedersoli GPS is several giant steps ahead of the old GPR. One other detail that is much improved in the GPS is in the carving of the lock panels. Look at the lock panel in the photo of the GPR above, and compare it to this close-up of the GPS:

GPS Lock.jpg


Much better! The lock panels on the original GPR were shaped a lot like a paint spill.

I sure would like to see somebody, knowledgeable about original plains rifles, do an objective side-by-side comparison of the Investarms GPR, the Lyman/Pedersoli GPS, and the Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken, pointing up the differences, and the changes and improvements made to the Signature series rifles as compared to the Investarms GPR.

In any event, I still think you are getting a lot of gun for the money with this Great Plains Signature rifle, and the targets are very impressive.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob
 

FishDFly

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"I sure would like to see somebody, knowledgeable about original plains rifles, do an objective side-by-side comparison of the Investarms GPR, the Lyman/Pedersoli GPS, and the Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken, pointing up the differences, and the changes and improvements made to the Signature series rifles as compared to the Investarms GPR."

Notchy Bob,

That would be an interesting comparison of the various rifles and differences

It would need to be expanded though in several areas.

In considering the Great Plain’s Rifle in the comparison, workmanship quality has varied in the last ten (10) years. Comparison there would need to be completed first to see the quality differences, good or bad and resolved.

The Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken, mine was in the first container to come over from Europe in 2006. It would be interesting to see if quality changes have taken place since and if there is a difference between the walnut and maple rifles then and today.

Folks jump and down on the church pew about the differences between spring and coil spring in the locks and do they really make a difference today?
 

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