Ludicrous, Probably Dumb Question

[Cattywompuss]

Right, so I grew up shooting BP revolvers and we always shot round ball. Most know that for round balls in revolvers your ball is oversized. When you load you get a little ring of lead sheared off by the chamber lip on the cylinder. This method of loading creates a tight fit without a patch and also seals the chamber to prevent chain fires.

Now, obviously noone wants to return to the days of loading a riffel with a spike and hammer, BUT has anyone ever tried loading a smoothbore with an over sized ball to obtain the same effect as described above?

I see the obvious reasons why it wouldn't be easy or useful: a barrel is much longer than a Colt chamber, necessitating hammering the ball all the way down; the ball might get stuck; why bother when a PRB or carded/wadded ball is accurate enough.

My question is only this: has anyone tried it?
Not why it's a bad idea. Not what could go wrong. I'm not looking for explanation or exposition on anything.

Have you tried it? If the answer is yes, what was the result? If you haven't tried it I don't need to hear why neither you, nor I, nor anyone should try it. We don't have anything beyond the handily obtained rock picked up off the ground because of conjecture about why something is a bad idea.

Save that for other posts.

Have you put an oversized roundball down a smoothbore barrel? That's it.

Sorry for all the disclaimers, but questions like this often receive answers that are full of knowledge yet totally fail to answer the primary question.

 

[Flintandsteel]

No, I haven’t tried it, nor wood I.
Depending on how tight it is, it could be an obstruction, not a projectile.

 

[Cattywompuss]

Depending on how tight it is, it could be an obstruction, not a projectile.

Yes, as I noted. Have you done it? That's the question. The only question. Sorry for the terse reply but I wrote most of the post above to sort out answers like this.

 

[Flintandsteel]

I tried to answer.... no, I haven’t tried it. Then the reason.
Not sure why you’d want to.
In a revolver, you use no patch, hence a larger Than bore size ball is required. The barrel has a forcing cone that gradually swages the ball for the barrel, then the powder obturates the ball to seal the rifling.
Nope, I haven’t tried it.

 

[Cattywompuss]

I tried to answer.... no, I haven’t tried it. Then the reason.
Not sure why you’d want to.
In a revolver, you use no patch, hence a larger Than bore size ball is required. The barrel has a forcing cone that gradually swages the ball for the barrel, then the powder obturates the ball to seal the rifling.
Nope, I haven’t tried it.

That's a fantastic answer! I hadn't though about the forcing cone.

 

[Cattywompuss]

As to why you would want to: elimination of blow-by without using a patch or other sealant. Before prb a riffel-gon or other gonne ball was literally driven down the barrel with a hammer.

So historically we essentially know it was done waaaay back in the long-before time. But does anyone still do it? And if so, how does it work out?

 

[Flintandsteel]

Well, I’d like to see the reference of driving a ball down a smooth bore barrel with a hammer. If it’s historically correct, I’ll concede. Certainly would complicate things in a fight.
Been shooting and building lon rifles and smooth bores for 40 years..... I’ve not seen that described.
I am willing to learn something new.

 

[flntlokr]

I did it once; got a .58 ball in with my .54 smoothie ball, and figured 'What the hell, I'll just pound it down' (at the time I was shooting naked ball over a wad; not patched ball) Pain in the butt! After damn near breaking my hand pounding the short starter, I had to borrow a long steel range rod to drive the ball down the barrel with a mallet. It shot out ok, but a lot more pressure(=recoil) than usual. I won't be doing that any more. Maybe if I had a .55 ball, it would be more rewarding, but I suspect fouling might make it a hammer-and-rod load as well after the first shot.

 

[Cattywompuss]

Well, I’d like to see the reference of driving a ball down a smooth bore barrel with a hammer. If it’s historically correct, I’ll concede. Certainly would complicate things in a fight.
Been shooting and building lon rifles and smooth bores for 40 years..... I’ve not seen that described.
I am willing to learn something new.

Nice diversion sir, but not the point nor an answer to the question. There is nothing to concede or win. But in fairness you have already answered the actual question to the post.

 

[Cattywompuss]

I did it once; got a .58 ball in with my .54 smoothie ball, and figured 'What the hell, I'll just pound it down' (at the time I was shooting naked ball over a wad; not patched ball) Pain in the butt! After damn near breaking my hand pounding the short starter, I had to borrow a long steel range rod to drive the ball down the barrel with a mallet. It shot out ok, but a lot more pressure(=recoil) than usual. I won't be doing that any more. Maybe if I had a .55 ball, it would be more rewarding, but I suspect fouling might make it a hammer-and-rod load as well after the first shot.

Fantastic! Yeah, .58 ball down a .54 seems a bit extreme, but I am fascinated to hear this account. Bear in mind, I have no intention of forcing a ball down my buck and ball gun, but I got a wild hair today to know if anyone has or does. Essentially it is the same as slugging a barrel to get true dimensions.

 

[bluemule66]

I have shot .562 balls in my .56 TC smooth bore. At 50yds I was getting about a 5in group. With a patched .535 I was getting 3in groups. I swabbed between shots with the .562 so I didn’t have to worry about a stuck ball. It will work, but not as good as a patched ball.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Once on a woods walk, I wasn't keeping my bore clean on my King's Musket. The ball got stuck in the bore after about the 10th shot. I needed to pound it down. I was able to shoot it out. I did get my wad of tow and wiped the bore with that to keep the loading easier.

About 1620 it was common practice to drive the bare ball down the barrel. It was not a military success for soon after the musketeers went to the paper patched cartridge.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

That's a fantastic answer! I hadn't though about the forcing cone.

That forcing cone is the key! Your idea will not work for a smooth bore! The bullet in a revolver is forced into the barrel by the powder charge.

 

[SDSmlf]

Right, so I grew up shooting BP revolvers and we always shot round ball. Most know that for round balls in revolvers your ball is oversized. When you load you get a little ring of lead sheared off by the chamber lip on the cylinder. This method of loading creates a tight fit without a patch and also seals the chamber to prevent chain fires.

Now, obviously noone wants to return to the days of loading a riffel with a spike and hammer, BUT has anyone ever tried loading a smoothbore with an over sized ball to obtain the same effect as described above?

I see the obvious reasons why it wouldn't be easy or useful: a barrel is much longer than a Colt chamber, necessitating hammering the ball all the way down; the ball might get stuck; why bother when a PRB or carded/wadded ball is accurate enough.

My question is only this: has anyone tried it?
Not why it's a bad idea. Not what could go wrong. I'm not looking for explanation or exposition on anything.

Have you tried it? If the answer is yes, what was the result? If you haven't tried it I don't need to hear why neither you, nor I, nor anyone should try it. We don't have anything beyond the handily obtained rock picked up off the ground because of conjecture about why something is a bad idea.

Save that for other posts.

Have you put an oversized roundball down a smoothbore barrel? That's it.

Sorry for all the disclaimers, but questions like this often receive answers that are full of knowledge yet totally fail to answer the primary question.

Curious how you propose to get the sheared ring of lead effect as most smoothbores (and all that I own) have their bores chamfered for ease of loading? Unless you plan to square of the bore first?

I have never seen a sheared ring of lead at the muzzle of a smoothbore from loading an oversized ball, so can’t answer your first question. As far as loading oversized balls in a smoothbore, I haven’t personally tried it, but a shooting buddy years ago used to shoot slightly over bore size bare balls in TC smoothbore. In a clean bore they loaded with a range rod and some sweat equity. Subsequent reloads, not so well. His was the first TC stock I saw that broke through the wrist. The replacement stock from TC was beautiful. When he broke that one he asked me to fix it. Worked out my technique for reenforcing TC on that stock, so it was a plus for me. Buddy got a new mold (smaller diameter ball), changed his loading technique and the problem went away. Don’t believe he broke the stock again. And as a bonus, he attributed his improved accuracy to the Acraglas I used as part of the repair to his stock.

Doubt you’ll find too many who have loaded oversized balls into smoothbores on purpose. Might be something for you to try and report back on the results.

 

[Cattywompuss]

Fair questions. My .60 smoothbore does not appear to have a chamfered muzzle, though it could be lightly done and unnoticeable. Still haven't shot it yet. It has about a foot of octagon before it goes round. I would be more inclined to try forcing a round ball on a smooth full octagon barrel which has all that extra steel between that charge and my hand. Though from the two examples in this thread neither have faced detonation or an excessive pressure situation. As such. It would seem that the risk is not to the gun, but rather a case of "This thing is an unbearable mother to load!"

 

[Yewbender]

Nope

 

[bluemule66]

With A .562 ball and a clean bore I lubed with mink oil on a .58 felt was, lube on the ball, then just one or two taps of my short starter and pushed it right down with my range rod. I swabbed between shots and the rest loaded just as easy. The TC 56 barrel is like having two guns in one. Twice the fun! It shoots shot well to. Took my turkey with it yesterday. Load of 6 shot to the head.

 

[flntlokr]

Fantastic! Yeah, .58 ball down a .54 seems a bit extreme, but I am fascinated to hear this account. Bear in mind, I have no intention of forcing a ball down my buck and ball gun, but I got a wild hair today to know if anyone has or does. Essentially it is the same as slugging a barrel to get true dimensions.

if it goes down, it will come out is the message there.

 

[nhmoose]

Hard to answer in this forum. Ask in the members Non-Muzzleloading Discussions | The Muzzleloading Forum and you will get better answers IMHO

 

[ord sgt]

I have a .69 calibre smoothbore. When I first started shooting it, I tried loading a .678 roundball and a 0.010 lubricated patch. First load was a little difficult, second loading was even harder and third load was close to impossible. Since then, I tried loading a bare .678 ball and no patch. Accuracy was poor. Then I found another idea. I have a pair of farrier's rasps. Placing the cast ball between the rasps, I could rough up the ball enough so the edges would touch the sides of the barrel. Much better accuracy.
Bottom line, I see no advantage in trying an oversized ball in a smoothbore. Barrel is too long to try to push a super tight ball all the way to the breech. Anything short of seating the ball on the powder charge is a disaster waiting to happen.