Looking to buy but don't have a clue about this long rifle. Please help! TIA!

[cornstalk]

Sent you a pm

 

[Rudyard]

I am no authority but looks right enough & a late flint . There is an' American Long Rifle forum' perhaps you could try but we do have some very learned members & much is written on such guns re value perhaps ask him what he would like' have a yarn see how you go .There is also the KRA who are into such rifles But they might frighten you with their notions .lots of luck Regards Rudyard

 

[Mad L]

As for "price", I would consider:
1) is it to be a wall hanger?
2) is the intention to clean it up and shoot it.

1) Wallhanger; how much are you willing to pay for a wall decoration?

2) Plan to restore and shoot; a CLOSE inspection needed to determine 'value' vs 'investment'
Value: how much is it worth vs the cost (investment) to put into service.

I am Not worthy or knowledgeable to even suggest 'how much' in any of those, but:
If you want it to Shoot: get a bore light or at least a bright (small) mag 'type" like and inspect the barrel.
Test the Lock (don't dry fire, just hold the cock so it dont slam): check the half cock, check trigger operation. Get a suitable flint and check the frizen (does it even spark).

Then Remove the lock; how does it look under there? How doe the stock look (is it rotting?).

Untill all that is confirmed, you wont really know how much (if any) it may cost to bring it to the range.

But of course; if you can get it at Low Ball cost - you would have either a Fantastic wall hanger or a Supurb project!
(*how much is "low ball"; some else will have to reply)

 

[Grenadier1758]

Do check to verify that the rifle is unloaded before you conduct any testing of lock and trigger function. So many of these old guns have a load at the breech. It is not improbable for a flintlock to fire without any powder in the pan.

 

[okawbow]

Looks like a great rifle. Not sure about the incised carving though. Looks wrong. Not well done and the form seems “off”. Someone could have added it later to make the gun more valuable.
Can we see a close up of the lock? Is there 1 or 2 lock bolts?

 

[oldyellerdawg]

I am no authority but looks right enough & a late flint . There is an' American Long Rifle forum' perhaps you could try but we do have some very learned members & much is written on such guns re value perhaps ask him what he would like' have a yarn see how you go .There is also the KRA who are into such rifles But they might frighten you with their notions .lots of luck Regards Rudyard

Great advice. Thank you!

 

[oldyellerdawg]

As for "price", I would consider:
1) is it to be a wall hanger?
2) is the intention to clean it up and shoot it.

1) Wallhanger; how much are you willing to pay for a wall decoration?

2) Plan to restore and shoot; a CLOSE inspection needed to determine 'value' vs 'investment'
Value: how much is it worth vs the cost (investment) to put into service.

I am Not worthy or knowledgeable to even suggest 'how much' in any of those, but:
If you want it to Shoot: get a bore light or at least a bright (small) mag 'type" like and inspect the barrel.
Test the Lock (don't dry fire, just hold the cock so it dont slam): check the half cock, check trigger operation. Get a suitable flint and check the frizen (does it even spark).

Then Remove the lock; how does it look under there? How doe the stock look (is it rotting?).

Untill all that is confirmed, you wont really know how much (if any) it may cost to bring it to the range.

But of course; if you can get it at Low Ball cost - you would have either a Fantastic wall hanger or a Supurb project!
(*how much is "low ball"; some else will have to reply)

Thank you for the response! I'd really like to shoot this rifle. I'll have another opportunity for close inspection this weekend so I will bring a good light to inspect the bore. Would be a nice wall hanger but that's what paintings are for, right?

 

[oldyellerdawg]

Do check to verify that the rifle is unloaded before you conduct any testing of lock and trigger function. So many of these old guns have a load at the breech. It is not improbable for a flintlock to fire without any powder in the pan.

Absolutely! Thanks for the reply!

 

[excess650]

The patchbox strikes me as "Western Pa", and the triggerguard and buttplate don't seem right for "Lancaster". Its odd that it has no cheekpiece. It appears that it has been shortened at the breech because of the rear sight location and name stamp.

More photos are needed, closeup of lock, sideplate side, tang carving if present, rear pipe carving if present, forend molding, nose cap to first pipe, toe plate, barrel length.....where is the patchbox release?

 

[oldyellerdawg]

Looks like a great rifle. Not sure about the incised carving though. Looks wrong. Not well done and the form seems “off”. Someone could have added it later to make the gun more valuable.
Can we see a close up of the lock? Is there 1 or 2 lock bolts?

Thank you for the response. I tend to agree with you there. For such a fine looking rifle the inscription does not match the apparent quality and level of detail found on this rifle. It is a head scratcher. I'm glad you pointed that out because it gives me more to unravel, getting to the true history, significance and value of this (I assume) genuine PA rifle.

 

[oldyellerdawg]

The patchbox strikes me as "Western Pa", and the triggerguard and buttplate don't seem right for "Lancaster". Its odd that it has no cheekpiece. It appears that it has been shortened at the breech because of the rear sight location and name stamp.

More photos are needed, closeup of lock, sideplate side, tang carving if present, rear pipe carving if present, forend molding, nose cap to first pipe, barrel length.....

Thank you for pointing this out. It could then be a "frankenPALR." that would be just fine for me. May make it more affordable, too! I will take your advice and take some very fine detailed photos to share here. I'll be able to inspect the rifle again on Saturday.

 

[smoothshooter]

Thank you for the response! I'd really like to shoot this rifle. I'll have another opportunity for close inspection this weekend so I will bring a good light to inspect the bore. Would be a nice wall hanger but that's what paintings are for, right?

There is almost no chance the owner is going to let you shoot it.
It would be a good idea (after checking to see if it is loaded and removing anything you find) to run a copper brush and lots of oily patches up and down the bore to see how bad things are in there after removing any old grease and rust scale. Take a good small flashlight with you too.

 

[oldyellerdawg]

There is almost no chance the owner is going to let you shoot it.
It would be a good idea (after checking to see if it is loaded and removing anything you find) to run a copper brush and lots of oily patches up and down the bore to see how bad things are in there after removing any old grease and rust scale. Take a good small flashlight with you too.

Thanks for the response. You are probably correct. Hopefully at least I’ll be able to perform a thorough inspection of the bore in the manner in which you have stated. I’ll be sure to bring a bore cleaning kit with me.

 

[DuncNZ]

There is a hesitation, on forums such as this , when it comes to recipes for making black powder because of possible litigious events taking place.
There seems no such hesitation when suggesting shooting a antique firearm of unknown soundness .

 

[oldyellerdawg]

There is a hesitation, on forums such as this , when it comes to recipes for making black powder because of possible litigious events taking place.
There seems no such hesitation when suggesting shooting a antique firearm of unknown soundness .

Thanks for the response. I’ve never prepped and fired a ML so my intent is to find someone who has a lot of experience with old rifles to determine if it would be a good idea to even attempt to fire this rifle. That’s assuming that the owner would agree to that. If not then surely this will affect the price I would be willing to pay for it. I still have no real idea of it’s worth. I have more work to do!

 

[poker]

Be careful taking a bore cleaning kit after the bore. Using cheapo brushes or rods can result in real problems. Ive seen brushes broken off down the bore by those who did that. Get yourself the proper style and good quality if you are going to do that. If it were my antique, theres no chance in hell Id let a novice get near my rifle with any cleaning kits or tools.

 

[oldyellerdawg]

Be careful taking a bore cleaning kit after the bore. Using cheapo brushes or rods can result in real problems. Ive seen brushes broken off down the bore by those who did that. Get yourself the proper style and good quality if you are going to do that. If it were my antique, theres no chance in hell Id let a novice get near my rifle with any cleaning kits or tools.

I’m definitely a novice with regard to flint locks. I have cleaned rifles all my life and often disassemble and reassemble them just because I can. At least I can say that. I’m not afraid of cleaning the bore of a simply made rifle with the appropriate sized bore brush. Thanks for the words of caution. I’m not planning on getting overly aggressive with this rifle. It’s not mine. YET!

 

[poker]

I understand what youre saying, but in a muzzleloader the brush needs to flip in the bore, you cant run it through, like youre likely used to. Only use brushes with a looped wire around the screw portion. The crimped ones can pull right out of the crimp.
On these old rifles, they often werent a standard bore, so its difficult to get a proper sized brush. Most go with what they have thats close. If theyre on the large side they can be a damned good pull to get them out.
If youre simply looking to get into shooting, it might be less frustrating to get something newer like a lyman or tc. But if collecting or reselling is your aim, just buy it if reasonable, and set it aside until you understand what youre really doing. Antique values can get trashed pretty easily and without even realizing it.
Good luck whichever way you go!

 

[oldyellerdawg]

I understand what youre saying, but in a muzzleloader the brush needs to flip in the bore, you cant run it through, like youre likely used to. Only use brushes with a looped wire around the screw portion. The crimped ones can pull right out of the crimp.
On these old rifles, they often werent a standard bore, so its difficult to get a proper sized brush. Most go with what they have thats close. If theyre on the large side they can be a damned good pull to get them out.
If youre simply looking to get into shooting, it might be less frustrating to get something newer like a lyman or tc. But if collecting or reselling is your aim, just buy it if reasonable, and set it aside until you understand what youre really doing. Antique values can get trashed pretty easily and without even realizing it.
Good luck whichever way you go!

Thanks for the advice. I’ll heed all warnings. Hopefully I can provide more information where I can get some folks to give me a value range for this rifle. I’d like to have it to keep! It is way neat to actually hold one. Never thought anything of them until I had it in my hands. I can’t even imagine the time and effort it took to build one in those times!

 

[poker]

If you want an appraisal and great advice, as mentioned by someone above, post your pictures and info over on Americanlongrifles.org in the antique rifles section of the forum. Theres a wealth of knowledge there.
Good luck and welcome to the collecting world.