Long Gone Classics

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ML48

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Or, have a bunch of abbreviations tacked on at the end of his name.

I wonder what Charlton Heston would say? Or, Robert Redford?

You could always have Rock Hudson stopping off in St. Louis to pick up a Hawken from Sam & Jake on his way West. Where he would meet Doris Day, and fall in love with "that little yaller haired gal" And, promise to return as quickly as possible, "efter ketchin' purt neer as many beaver pelts as I kin". Shining Times!!!!
I believe ole' Rock favored the fellers more😂🤣
 

Loyalist Dave

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I'm sorry if I seem a mite dim, but where, apart from the S*id*r, do I mention anything that isn't a muzzle-loader?
I think he's alluding to you guys at your event explaining to "guests" a Muzzleloader is loaded through the muzzle..., I took it as he's making fun of the average joe off the street at such an event...,

LD
 

TFoley

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I think he's alluding to you guys at your event explaining to "guests" a Muzzleloader is loaded through the muzzle..., I took it as he's making fun of the average joe off the street at such an event...,LD
o.

Given that it is entirely possible that nobody coming as a guest has EVER actually SEEN a real firearm, let alone picked one up and shot it, that comment is a mite cruel. The UK is NOT the USA, where most people, in even these divisive times, HAVE seen a real gun - all your police have them all the time, as a fer'instance - so for a very high proportion of our guests this really will be their first contact with ANY kind of a firearm, no matter how it works.
 

TFoley

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The equipment from Sharon Barrel Company may have ended up with Joe Williams at Oregon Barrel Company.
Is that the same Joe Williams I knew as the boss of The Gun works in Springfield OR?
 

Loyalist Dave

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o.

Given that it is entirely possible that nobody coming as a guest has EVER actually SEEN a real firearm, let alone picked one up and shot it, that comment is a mite cruel. The UK is NOT the USA, where most people, in even these divisive times, HAVE seen a real gun - all your police have them all the time, as a fer'instance - so for a very high proportion of our guests this really will be their first contact with ANY kind of a firearm, no matter how it works.
He likely missed you are in the UK,
I did...
Yes callous humor is often not...

And good for you guys to be showing the folks about guns, and history. 👍

LD
 

TFoley

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He likely missed you are in the UK,
I did...
Yes callous humor is often not...

And good for you guys to be showing the folks about guns, and history. 👍

LD
Usn's do our best, Sir, no matter how poor it be's.....
 

Stantheman86

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People often overlook the concept of just buying and shooting original firearms.

I bought 2 original 1861 Springfields in shootable condition for less than a Pedersoli costs.

I've been shooting original military rifles my entire life. As long as you don't abuse them or plan to put 100,000 rounds through them they won't fail you.

The popularity of Muzzleloading as a Recreational Sport is dying off, at least in the US. It appears to be very popular in Europe and the UK.

Only states in the US that require "Traditional" firearms for Muzzleloading season keep any use of a Flintlock alive here, for the most part.

People like us that shoot them for sport and recreation are largely a rarity. Reenacting participation is down, Gettysburg went to every other year for the Reenactment because groups aren't as big to stage the battles. ArmiSport and Pedersoli turn out Muskets and Rifle-Muskets mostly for reenactors and people who just want them for occasional "novelty" shooting. Die Hard users of these weapons are not common in the US.

I bought a brand new Pedersoli 1816 Musket from Dixie 2 years ago and it was made in 2014, which means they aren't exactly flying off the shelves.

Like was said above, movies and online streaming shows, and video games can spark the market. Like when Saving Private Ryan came out, everyone and their pops wanted M1 Garands.

A miniseries about the Frontier with big name actors could spark a resurgence in Muzzleloading, just like how Jeremiah Johnson caused interest in Hawkens, the Clint westerns sparked a demand for cap and ballers and even Hell on Wheels was likely responsible for people Googling "Griswold & Gunnison" and buying Pietta brass frame revolvers. I bought one because of Hell on Wheels, case in point even though I'd had one previously and sold it. I watched The Outlaw Josey Wales and bought a pair of Walkers. Movies sell guns.
 

Eddie Southgate

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Does anybody remember the Old Mowrey Gun Works out of Texas I believe? Those were nice looking rifles. I don't know how durable they were, but I think they offered them in both brass and browned steel fittings.
Must have been well thought of by those who bought them , you never see them for sale . Bob Tingle made a decent rifle during the period mentioned . The Cecil Brooks rifle that Turner sold was a nice little rifle as was the Richland Arms Wesson rifle .
 

Urban Coyote

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plmeek

I have seen your website it's sgreat source of information, thank you for sharing. Actually I have a few GRRW guns, although I still regret the . 50 Leman I mentioned selling. There's a . 58 Leman by Fields, my . 54 Leman by Powell, the scaled down .45 Leman, I don't recall the maker's mark and a .50 gun that appears similar to the Leman except it has an entry pipe and poured nose cap, this gun is by Walker according to the maker's mark. I've not seen one like it before, perhaps you could shed some light.
IMG_20210816_084425574.jpgIMG_20210816_084415965.jpgIMG_20210816_084409523.jpg
 

sheriff john

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My Ithaca Hawken is my favorite as far as what I'd like to see again - no coil springs, pretty accurate recreation and really accurate as well. Jonathan Browning killed well over 20 deer but it wasn't really a true copy of anything and bad mainsprings ended it's life after I bought the last 3 available. What's never been available at affordable prices is the "cornstalk gun" - single shot smoothbore shotgun not much written about but I wager more common than other types back in the day. A workingman's gun. Kill anything with hair, feathers, or clothes. Buck& ball, shot, nails or rocks.

I may be wrong, but as I see it, manufacturers prefer coil springs to flat springs for a couple of reasons - cost and cost. Molded plastic's replacing wood on nearly everything. What we need is a well-produced "Frontiersman" video game if we truly wish to get youngsters interested. It could be done. Maybe this time the "Injuns" could win (that'd be neat).
 

plmeek

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...and a .50 gun that appears similar to the Leman except it has an entry pipe and poured nose cap, this gun is by Walker according to the maker's mark. I've not seen one like it before, perhaps you could shed some light.
The entry pipe and nose cap on your rifle was an extra cost option shown in their catalogs and price sheets. See the "Extras on finished rifles" in the 1979 Price List below.

1979 GRRW Price List.jpg


Not very many customers ordered that option even though it was more correct for a Leman half stock rifle. The standard pewter nose cap with the integral hole for the ramrod is more like what one sees on original Leman rifles that started out as full stock and were cut back to half stock during its working life.

I have one that was stocked by Bill McKay that is also a flintlock and has a fancy wood stock--two more extra cost options. This rifle is .50 caliber.

I have another one with the traditional entry pipe that was made by Neill Fields that is a .58 caliber, but it is what I call an "off-the-clock" rifle meaning that he made it on his own time for a personal sale. It doesn't have the GRRW stamp on it nor does it have a serial number. Any GRRW rifle with a makers mark but without the company stamp and serial number is likely one of these "off-the-clock" rifles.

Here is a picture of the two rifles together. The "off-the-clock" rifle is the top one and the factory rifle by Bill McKay is the bottom one.
IMG_2990_crop low res.jpg


Both of these rifles have Siler locks. GRRW typically used a Siler lock on the flintlocks they built as there weren't many choices in flintlocks through most of the 1970s.

L&R came out with their waterproof pan flintlock about 1977 that they initially called a "Hawken flintlock", and Ron Long came out with his similar flintlock about 1978. I've yet to see a GRRW rifle with an L&R lock, but I have seen some late production rifles (like 1980) with Ron Long's flintlock.

Your rifle looks like it has a Ron Long percussion Hawken lock on it. GRRW used that lock on their Leman Trade Rifles from 1975 to mid-1978. Your rifle probably dates either late 1977 or early 1978 based on the lock and the mountings.

Sometime in the 2nd half of 1978, GRRW began using the Siler percussion Mountain lock on their Leman Trade Rifles and the Leman Indian Rifles.

I'm not sure why Fields used the Siler percussion conversion lock on the "off-the-clock" rifle other than he was free to use whatever lock he or the customer wanted.
 

plmeek

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My Ithaca Hawken is my favorite as far as what I'd like to see again - no coil springs, pretty accurate recreation and really accurate as well.
I agree with your assessment of the Ithaca Hawken. As you probably know, Ithaca bought the Cherry Corners molds and tooling and used the Cherry Corners breech & tang, lock, and mountings on their Hawken rifles. They came up with their own stock design and used an aluminum alloy nose cap.

I have three Ithaca Hawken rifles. Two are factory finished and one appears to be a kit gun. One of the factory rifles is in unfired condition.

I also have two Navy Arms/Ithaca Hawken rifles. Ithaca sold their "Black Powder" division to Navy Arms after producing the Ithaca Hawken for a very short period of time. Navy Arms continued to make the rifle using the same parts and production techniques as Ithaca for several years. I kind a wonder if Navy Arms contracted with Ithaca to make the Hawken rifles for them. About the only difference between the two manufactured rifles is the barrel markings.

One of my Navy Arms/Ithaca Hawken rifles is a factory flintlock rifle. I didn't know Navy Arms made the rifle in a flintlock until I saw it at an auction. I later got my hands on some old Navy Arms catalogs and saw that it was listed in the catalog.

The other Navy Arms/Ithaca Hawken rifle in my collection is an unfinished kit still in the original box with all the Ithaca brochures and assembly instruction book.

It's been fun collecting and studying these old guns.
 
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