London Armory reproduction Enfield 1853

[Shaw11b]

Hey guys,
have any of you ever used a EuroArms of America reproduction London Armory Enfield 1853? There is one for a decent price but have been told to stay away from euro arms by a few CW reenactors. What do you guys think? Thanks for your help.

 

[Trot]

They were a good quality gun, the only problem is parts availability. They haven't been made in some time.

 

[dave951]

Hey guys,
have any of you ever used a EuroArms of America reproduction London Armory Enfield 1853? There is one for a decent price but have been told to stay away from euro arms by a few CW reenactors. What do you guys think? Thanks for your help.

Depends on what you want to do. I've had several and was a reenactor. I don't know why a reenactor would say stay away unless their units specify something else. I was in a Confederate unit that was documented to have Enfields.

As for any other reason, like live fire, a Euroarms can be problematic. Some can be made to shoot live ammo fairly well. Others not so much. As stated, parts are an issue.

 

[Shaw11b]

Depends on what you want to do. I've had several and was a reenactor. I don't know why a reenactor would say stay away unless their units specify something else. I was in a Confederate unit that was documented to have Enfields.

As for any other reason, like live fire, a Euroarms can be problematic. Some can be made to shoot live ammo fairly well. Others not so much. As stated, parts are an issue.

I wasn’t sure on the quality as GB had one for 550 and I thought that was really low if it was a great quality rifle. Thanks for the info on it. I’m glad I didn’t get over excited and buy it.

 

[Artificer]

Well, a few of us old NSSA Shooters or Armorers still have parts for the NA/EuroArms Enfield Locks, but not many of us I guess.

Gus

 

[dave951]

The issue with Euroarms quality is the early ones quite often had a lot of the remaining Parker Hale parts. As time went on, and they started making their own parts quality could be very iffy on a gun intended for live fire. Not that they aren't safe, but getting one to shoot well can be a chore.

 

[Hawk54]

I had an early Euroarms Enfield three bander that I bought new from TOTW for civil war reenacting. Carried it for many years. Shot the heck out of it at live rifle shoots. Out of the bag minnie balls weren't accurate. A friend of mine in our unit let me try some of his ash can cast bullets and it shot dead on. That thing was deadly out to 100 yards. I never had one problem with that rifle in all the time I had it.

 

[vibraphonusrex]

I have a Euroarms P53, made in the early ‘90s. It shoots high right now, only because I’ve been using a standard military load. Windage is pretty good, though. One thing the guys commented on when I bought it for reenacting purposes was that it was probably two pounds heavier than anything else out there. There was a repro Springfield at Lodgewood the other day, and felt like a feather compared to my Enfield.

 

[dave951]

I have a Euroarms P53, made in the early ‘90s. It shoots high right now, only because I’ve been using a standard military load. Windage is pretty good, though.

It shoots high cuz that’s how they were set up. It’s a common misconception among modern shooters with little familiarity of 19th century arms. Marksmanship wasn’t on the agenda and troops were taught to aim at center mass. A hit high above a center mass point of aim is still a very bad day for the recipient. They weren’t target shooting and the sights absolutely reflect that.

 

[vibraphonusrex]

Yeah, that’s what I just said. This week I’ll develop a better load since, just like my trapdoor, these were sighted in at 200-250 yards.

 

[Robin Henderson]

I had one of their 58s when they were first introduced and was having difficulties getting it to shoot where I wanted it to impact. A gunsmith friend and I were examining it when we noticed the muzzle crown just didn't look right so he recrowned it for me. It still didn't look right and a close examination revealed that the grooves had different depths. It was a three groove with one being really shallow, the next was deeper and finally the third was really deep. How this was accomplished I can only guess....ended up calling the rifling "Italian progressive depth". I called Euroarms and they agreed to swap it out for another which turned out to be better but not much which to me was still a problem because I was planning on target shooting with it. So I called Euroarms again to address my displeasure with the musket and the problems I found in them. After a lengthy conversation they finally admitted that they were after the reenactor market and not the target shooter. That was all I needed to know. I can't remember what exactly happened to that gun but I do know I didn't keep it.... Steered clear of them to this day.

 

[OldSmoky1967]

Well, a few of us old NSSA Shooters or Armorers still have parts for the NA/EuroArms Enfield Locks, but not many of us I guess.

Gus

You wouldn't happen to have a whole lock for sale would you? I have one that has the half cock position removed and a super light trigger pull. Nice for targets but not NSSA legal. Just trying to source one...

 

[dave951]

You wouldn't happen to have a whole lock for sale would you? I have one that has the half cock position removed and a super light trigger pull. Nice for targets but not NSSA legal. Just trying to source one...

You probably only need a tumbler. Some old stock Parker Hales will work with some fitting.

 

[satwel]

FWIW, I have a Euroarms London Armory Pattern 1858 two band Enfield. It shoots just fine. The internal lock parts have PH stamps on them. I put a taller front sight on mine because it shot high, like they all do. It's plenty accurate. I have no complaints.

 

[maillemaker]

You wouldn't happen to have a whole lock for sale would you? I have one that has the half cock position removed and a super light trigger pull. Nice for targets but not NSSA legal. Just trying to source one...

Lodgewood sells CNC-machined tumblers and sears that will drop into the Euroarms lock.

 

[maillemaker]

My very first N-SSA skirmish gun was a Euroarms P53. I bought it off of Gunbroker sight unseen.

Bore ended up being .584" in diameter. Even when I found a bullet that would fit it, it never shot worth a darn. I ended up getting a Whitacre barrel for it.

Soon the sear nose broke. I got a new CNC machined, heat treated tumbler and sear from Lodgewood.

The guns are OK, but like the Parker Hales, they are modeled after Type IV Enfields. They have Baddley bands instead of the correct Palmer bands. They have round-eared lock washers instead of correct square-eared ones.

If you are looking for an Enfield that looks the part of a Civil War era Enfield, the Euroarms is not a good choice, "out of the box".

 

[OldSmoky1967]

Lodgewood sells CNC-machined tumblers and sears that will drop into the Euroarms lock.

Thanks!

 

[Stantheman86]

Didn't Pedersoli buy Euroarms as a whole when they went under, and used their tooling to make all the military rifles and muskets?

So, is a Pedersoli P53 not basically a Euroarms? Any Pedersoli parts should fit an older Euroarms.

I personally don't care if my Parker-Hales are Type IVs , I buy them to shoot and have fun with, I'm not a reenactor.

 

[maillemaker]

Didn't Pedersoli buy Euroarms as a whole when they went under, and used their tooling to make all the military rifles and muskets?

So, is a Pedersoli P53 not basically a Euroarms? Any Pedersoli parts should fit an older Euroarms.

I personally don't care if my Parker-Hales are Type IVs , I buy them to shoot and have fun with, I'm not a reenactor.

Pedersoli did indeed buy Euroarms, but their Enfield is now totally new tooling.

I have a 3-digit serial number Pedersoli P1858. The lock contains many legacy Euroarms parts (the bridle still has a faint P-H in the casting where it was copied from Parker Hale!). The rear sight likewise was a muddy Euroarms casting.

I later got a later-production Pedersoli P1853. All new parts inside.

The Euroarms P53 was based on a Type IV Enfield, which never saw service in the American Civil War. When Pedersoli retooled the Enfield, they made it a more faithful copy of the Type III. It now has correct swivel hardware, more-correct Palmer-style barrel bands, and square-eared lock washers, to name a few details.

I actually have a Euroarms P1853. I have not tried to put my Pedersoli P58 lock in it. But I would not count any parts interchangeability between a Pedersoli and Euroarms gun. Might work, but might not, as Pedersoli retooled the whole gun.