Loading Procedure Question

[THBailey]

When I first started front loading I was shown a technique of shoving down the main charge load until it seemed to bottom out, then pull the ram rod maybe half way up the barrel, and then throw it back down the bore, and do this until the rod starts to bounce back up and maybe even out of the barrel. I was told the rod would not rebound until the load was fully seated and properly packed in. I am just wondering what the opinions, pro or con, on this practice might be? Thanks.

 

[fleener]

IMO does not help.

You are crushing the powder perhaps that is just under the ball.

For what it is worth, for long range shooting the bullet will almost go down the bore with just the weight of the ramrod. Once the bullet is on the powder I put perhaps one or two pounds of pressure on the range rod. There is never any bouncing of the rod, dont want to deform the nose of the bullet.

fleener

 

[wattlebuster]

NOT needed :shake: you will also deform the ball

 

[54ball]

Insane.

 

[George]

Yes, when I got into muzzleloading in the mid-1970s it was common to see shooters do that. I never got into that habit. It seems to have become ancient history for most, these days.

The only reference from the old days I've ever found which mentioned it is from not so far back, 1895, and I suspect it was fiction. It is A Turkey Hunt, by David Dodge, Outing Magazine, Vol 27, October 1895 to March 1896. It is also the only reference I've ever found to the use of hornet's nest for wadding.

"His amazingly long-barreled gun, which was an old “flint-and-steel” converted into a percussion, was an object of unbounded interest. The loading proceeded with the greatest deliberation. Matt had his own notions about loading a gun and believed that his way was the only sure one for turkey. The charges had to be measured with extreme nicety, a certain sized shot unmixed with any others, and hornet’s-nest wadding had to be used. The last wad had always to be rammed till the ramrod had bounced out of the barrel seven times."

Spence

 

[19 16 6]

I can't see Lewis Wetzel taking the time to do this,
Seems to me that it is adding a non existent mystique for the purpose of showing off.
O.

 

[No Deer]

Consistency in loading is a key to accuracy. I don't see how you could get consistent pressure on the ball by bouncing the ramrod.

 

[Rifleman1776]

If you go up and down the line at a large shoot you will see many 'techniques' for loading. The notion a rod must be bounced is pointless. But many shooters have personal rituals they follow. Some cannot find paper unless they go through their rituals. My technique is to apply some pressure after seating. Not much but some. Needed? I dunno :idunno: , but I just do it.

 

[Billnpatti]

I, too heard this tail. I think it is :bull: If you wipe your bore between shots, as Dutch Schoultz recommends, it will remain clean and consistant and the ball will seat completely without bouncing your rod. Just a nice smooth ride down the bore until it seats on your powder. I have tried different pressures when seating the ball against the powder and none seemed to make any difference. The important thing is to get the ball seated against the powder. Once it is there, you can quit pushing and no need for bouncing your rod.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I've seen this done, and the last time I saw a fellow doing it I asked him, "Did that patched ball offend you in some way?" :youcrazy:

The following is From: The Muzzle-Loading Cap Lock Rifle by Ned Roberts, 1940 p. 103
Italics appear as they do in the actual text

"..., and having filled the charger even full from the powder horn, pour the charge carefully into the barrel; then place an oiled linen, or other cloth, patch over the muzzle being careful to center it over the bore. Next place a round ball, with the sprue up, in the center of the patch- be sure the ball is truly centered in the patch- press the ball down with the thumb even with the muzzle,...., Do not ram, or pound, the ball down the bore, and do not "whang" the ball with the ramrod onto the powder - simply seat the ball firmly on the powder with a light pressure on the ramrod. ...., and ramming or pounding the ball down the bore will upset it making it merely a slug of lead instead of a sphere and thus destroy all accuracy.

Be careful to seat the ball on the powder with uniform pressure each and every time, because if you seat it very lightly one time and very hard the next, these two balls will have quite different points of impact on the target."

LD

 

[mooman76]

I've done it. I started shooting in the 70s and that's what many guys did. No internet back then an not much info around. I don't believe it hurts to do all that much but like others have stated, not needed.

 

[azmntman]

I load kinda tight, don't believe I could slam that rod down hard enough to move the ball even a smidgen?

 

[Larry Akers]

This practice would harken back to two French inventors, Deligne and Thouvenin who pioneered the hollow-based cylindro-conoidal bullets. In loading their bullets the ramrod was forceably rammed on the bullet three times to deform the skirt to engage the rifling. Eventually it was known that the force of the powder gas would expand the skirt and the ramming was unnecessary.

A bullet should seat on the powder without any crushing. Pounding leads to variations in pressure which causes inconsistent accuracy.

 

[Snakebite]

You should be able to feel when the ball is firmly seated. You can also mark your ramrod for certain loading so you know when the ball is seated. I'm with everyone else, it's not needed but I sell see people do it, especially on some of the YouTube videos.

 

[azmntman]

Just got back from woods, took the CVA .36 bobcat for one last try to site in. I noted when seating the ball I heard and "felt" a slight crunch in the powder. At that point I am positive I could not seat it further no matter how hard I slammed the ram rod. So If ya wanna slam or tap or what ever go for it, makes the simplicity of muzzle loading look more complex and adds a false "flashy" (imho)extra step towards accuracy.

ff The bobcat FAILED. Two powders, prb and mini with several loads from .20 gr to .40 @ 30 yds 4-5 inch groups. :td: buh bye bobcat

 

[hanshi]

I seat the prb until I just hear/feel a slight "crunch". I can't ever remember throwing the rod down the bore trying to get it to bounce. Sounds a bit foolish, IMHO.

 

[Zonie]

When I first started front loading I was shown a technique of shoving down the main charge load until it seemed to bottom out, then pull the ram rod maybe half way up the barrel, and then throw it back down the bore, and do this until the rod starts to bounce back up and maybe even out of the barrel. I was told the rod would not rebound until the load was fully seated and properly packed in. I am just wondering what the opinions, pro or con, on this practice might be? Thanks.

Doing that is a total waste of time.

 

[coloradoclyde]

It was a common practice back in the 70's and 80's..maybe even before that....I saw a lot of guys load that way....Even did it myself for awhile...
I think guys originally got the idea from reading an article in Muzzle blast magazine.....But don't quote me on it... :wink:

 

[Cpl. Ashencheeks]

Many bad habits get perpetuated by the Hollywood movie machine.

Examples are like when someone swings a revolver cylinder shut, spinning a cylinder briskly, finger in the trigger guard when no shot is going to be performed, etc.

I can imagine bouncing a ramrod up once just to get it out of the way a little quicker for combat shooting in times past, perhaps even to get it out of the barrel faster for the next shot or to use a close quarter poking weapon.

Pure speculation as to how this practice with a ramrod came about, but some people must think that it looks cool.

It could likely be that this practice came from one of those movie machine contrivances that was gleaned even earlier from literary sources like the example given above.

Mark the ramrod for where your best loads are and a consistent pressure without smashing the powder will probably give best results.

From what I have been lead to believe, logical consistency goes a long way to better shooting.

I do not know what bouncing will accomplish other then deforming the ball and smashing the powder like others stated already.

 

[THBailey]

Well thanks so much for all the response. And the advice is most appreciated. In favor of the conical we use for hunting, I haven't shot PRB for many years. But I just ordered my first flinter ever, a .54 Lyman Great Plains rifle kit. With its 1/60 twist it is back to the PRB, but looks like I will be loading a bit differently now. Again, many thanks.