Leather wads in a cap and ball?

[brewer12345]

Dixie told me Friday they are running 2 weeks behind in mailing stuff.

I figured as much. I look forward to handling the new acquisition, but realistically I don't even have round balls or a suitable mold in hand yet (both on order) and getting the time to go shooting during hunting season seems unlikely, so no biggie.

 

[smoothshooter]

OK, then what purpose do the wads serve in a revolver?

Lubrication only.

 

[wb78963]

I have been told, and after testing, the theory it appears that the lubricant in the wad is vaporized by the heat of combustion and mixes with the fouling keeping it soft.
Lube over the ball does a good job of making the outside of the gun well lubricated but does little for the bore. This is because the gas escape at the chamber mouth removes most of the grease and simply spreads it all over the gun. making a mess.
Petroleum based lubricants are converted to tar in the bore and believe me from experience it is the male child of a female dog (family friendly) to remove. Experience, the thing you get right after you needed it.
Bunk

 

[arcticap]

Petroleum based lubricants are converted to tar in the bore and believe me from experience it is the male child of a female dog (family friendly) to remove. Experience, the thing you get right after you needed it.
Bunk

***Some petroleum based lubes are compatible.***
After all, mineral oil, paraffin wax, petroleum jelly are petroleum based and won't cause any problems.
Petroleum is a natural product but a lot of different derivatives can create tar.
The main ingredient in Ballistol & Bore Butter & Wonder lube is mineral oil, and there's wax in BB & WW too.

Without specifying which lube, then people will ask "Oh I thought that all petroleum based lubes are no good and will cause problems?"
Only some petroleum products cause tar, while others can lubricate quite well.
Read the labels of common patch lube products and you'll find that many contain some amount of mineral oil.

Lube over the ball does a good job of making the outside of the gun well lubricated but does little for the bore. This is because the gas escape at the chamber mouth removes most of the grease and simply spreads it all over the gun. making a mess.

They can make a mess but putting some of them over the ball can also be effective in keeping fouling soft inside the bore.
I think that it depends on the ingredients of the lube that's being used.
People have reported that using a very thin bead of lube on top of the ball works for them such as Vaseline, and the original Gojo waterless hand cleaner without pumice.
Some people pack the top of the chamber with a harder lube and that works very well too.

Personally I don't use lube with American Pioneer Powder because it's not recommended.
When I did try BB lube over the ball it certainly coated the inside of the bore making it quite greasy.
However I prefer to use APP without any lube and just swab the bore after 40 or more shots if needed, loading 30 grains of powder.

 

[wb78963]

Hello Articap,
There is a very complex organic chemistry difference with paraffin wax, mineral oil ,Vaseline, and perhaps some other petroleum products that are compatible with black gunpowder.
The Cowboy Action City forum in the black powder section there is an explanation. but it takes some digging.
It is way yonder too complex for this old broke down cowboy to completely understand or explain.
But I guarantee usual crayola lube and black powder fouling will really make a mess in a rifle barrel.
In a hand gun I don't know, but someone else can do that experiment.
You are correct about APP in any of the disguises it uses does not need bullet lube. The fouling is consecutive not cumulative so you are always only one shot dirty.
Keep making smoke!
Yr' Obt' Svt'
Bunk

 

[M. De Land]

***Some petroleum based lubes are compatible.***
After all, mineral oil, paraffin wax, petroleum jelly are petroleum based and won't cause any problems.
Petroleum is a natural product but a lot of different derivatives can create tar.
The main ingredient in Ballistol & Bore Butter & Wonder lube is mineral oil, and there's wax in BB & WW too.

Without specifying which lube, then people will ask "Oh I thought that all petroleum based lubes are no good and will cause problems?"
Only some petroleum products cause tar, while others can lubricate quite well.
Read the labels of common patch lube products and you'll find that many contain some amount of mineral oil.



They can make a mess but putting some of them over the ball can also be effective in keeping fouling soft inside the bore.
I think that it depends on the ingredients of the lube that's being used.
People have reported that using a very thin bead of lube on top of the ball works for them such as Vaseline, and the original Gojo waterless hand cleaner without pumice.
Some people pack the top of the chamber with a harder lube and that works very well too.

Personally I don't use lube with American Pioneer Powder because it's not recommended.
When I did try BB lube over the ball it certainly coated the inside of the bore making it quite greasy.
However I prefer to use APP without any lube and just swab the bore after 40 or more shots if needed, loading 30 grains of powder.

The problem I see with over ball lubing isn't that it doesn't work it's that it makes a mess and each shot has a decreasing amount of lube present to do the work as the preceding shot blows more of it out of the chambers yet to be fired. A greased over size ,over powder wad seals the chamber, distributes the exact same amount of lube for each shot, stops the lube mess and helps mop out the bore of fouling . They are also faster to load than is cream of wheat or corn meal.
Lube is better and less likely to make tar which is a petroleum issue if animal products are used such as Bees wax, bear, hog or mink oil. Bear oil/grease is one of the best if you can make or find it. It will keep for years and doesn't freeze in cold weather.

 

[arcticap]

The guy who tried the Gojo and another hand cleaner first starting using it as a revolver cleaner after the shooting session.
It worked so well to dissolve black powder fouling as a cleaner that he decided to try it as a ball lube.
He mentioned how much louder the shot from the .36 sounded, producing much more of an authoritative crack loading the same amount of powder.
Then when he tried it next with a full cylinder he said the lube produced the best groups of the day.
It also lubes the cylinder pin since one of the ingredients is mineral oil.

Gojo was originally developed to dissolve carbon black from the hands of rubber tire plant workers.
It makes sense that it would dissolve black powder fouling on black powder guns.
I recall someone here on the MLF who loved to use it as a patch lube and told everyone about it.
I recall another dedicated user describing how he cleans his rifles with it.
If it cleans out the bore during firing then that could explain the increase in accuracy and perhaps velocity too.
It doesn't require much, and he put some in a mustard squeeze bottle to help apply it.
He also used another waterless hand cleaner that IIRC was a liquid and may have had some different ingredients.

The amount of mess produced by lube such as Vaseline seems to be directly related to the amount that's placed over the ball.
Here's a video of a gent that can load as fast as anyone using a Vaseline dispenser that applies only a very small amount by gently rubbing a spout around the top of the chamber.
I think that the spout is attached to a hypodermic like squeeze or feeding dispenser for animals, but home made.
The point is that it doesn't need to be messy if the lube is applied sparingly, just enough that's needed to be effective.
The gun does not get covered with messy lube such as when packing the top of the chambers full of lube.
The first minute can be skipped over:


He quickly reloads and ends up firing 12 shots.



This was the target:

 

[wb78963]

Interesting, but just another thing to pick up. My guns mostly are snubbies and are loaded off the gun in a Dick Dastardly Tower of Power press.
The routine is
Charge all the chambers
Place a lube wad on each chamber
Put the cylinder on the press and put a ball on each chamber
press in place
put the gun back together.
cap the cones
Robert is your father's brother
ready to shoot.
Works for me
Bunk

 

[Boston Bill]

Lubrication only.
The edges of even a tight-fitting wad do not fit up tight against the ID of a chamber after the ball is seated because the wad will “ cup “ around the rear of the ball when it is seated.

Huh. I never thought of that. Makes sense!

 

[Boston Bill]

Ya, that

Measure the tip of your nipples. Another call out for having an inexpensive digital caliper.

If the tip measures 0.156" approximately, then use #10 percussion caps.

If the tip measures 0.165" approximately, then use #11 caps.

Using the correct caps will help prevent cap jams and chain fires.

Ya, that made the wife laugh. She said I am an expert.

 

[Boston Bill]

The 1/8" cork wads were used to space black powder shotgun shell loads which is outside the purvey of this forum.
Excuse me Mr. Moderator on this subject I will speak no more.
I would suspect that cork wads could be used as filler in a revolver, but corn meal would be much less expensive.
Could be used as a coushion in a rifle over the powder under the ball.
I may use some in my paper cartridges for the Sharps although that system seems not to be bothered by air space in the chamber..
More to follow
Bunk

IIRC when I corn meal as a filler in my ROA it seemed easier to clean.

 

[Boston Bill]

***Some petroleum based lubes are compatible.***
After all, mineral oil, paraffin wax, petroleum jelly are petroleum based and won't cause any problems.
Petroleum is a natural product but a lot of different derivatives can create tar.
The main ingredient in Ballistol & Bore Butter & Wonder lube is mineral oil, and there's wax in BB & WW too.

Without specifying which lube, then people will ask "Oh I thought that all petroleum based lubes are no good and will cause problems?"
Only some petroleum products cause tar, while others can lubricate quite well.
Read the labels of common patch lube products and you'll find that many contain some amount of mineral oil.



They can make a mess but putting some of them over the ball can also be effective in keeping fouling soft inside the bore.
I think that it depends on the ingredients of the lube that's being used.
People have reported that using a very thin bead of lube on top of the ball works for them such as Vaseline, and the original Gojo waterless hand cleaner without pumice.
Some people pack the top of the chamber with a harder lube and that works very well too.

Personally I don't use lube with American Pioneer Powder because it's not recommended.
When I did try BB lube over the ball it certainly coated the inside of the bore making it quite greasy.
However I prefer to use APP without any lube and just swab the bore after 40 or more shots if needed, loading 30 grains of powder.

After reading about it in this forum, I put a drop of oil on the ball and that seemed to work really good to!

 

[M. De Land]

The guy who tried the Gojo and another hand cleaner first starting using it as a revolver cleaner after the shooting session.
It worked so well to dissolve black powder fouling as a cleaner that he decided to try it as a ball lube.
He mentioned how much louder the shot from the .36 sounded, producing much more of an authoritative crack loading the same amount of powder.
Then when he tried it next with a full cylinder he said the lube produced the best groups of the day.
It also lubes the cylinder pin since one of the ingredients is mineral oil.

Gojo was originally developed to dissolve carbon black from the hands of rubber tire plant workers.
It makes sense that it would dissolve black powder fouling on black powder guns.
I recall someone here on the MLF who loved to use it as a patch lube and told everyone about it.
I recall another dedicated user describing how he cleans his rifles with it.
If it cleans out the bore during firing then that could explain the increase in accuracy and perhaps velocity too.
It doesn't require much, and he put some in a mustard squeeze bottle to help apply it.
He also used another waterless hand cleaner that IIRC was a liquid and may have had some different ingredients.

The amount of mess produced by lube such as Vaseline seems to be directly related to the amount that's placed over the ball.
Here's a video of a gent that can load as fast as anyone using a Vaseline dispenser that applies only a very small amount by gently rubbing a spout around the top of the chamber.
I think that the spout is attached to a hypodermic like squeeze or feeding dispenser for animals, but home made.
The point is that it doesn't need to be messy if the lube is applied sparingly, just enough that's needed to be effective.
The gun does not get covered with messy lube such as when packing the top of the chambers full of lube.
The first minute can be skipped over:


He quickly reloads and ends up firing 12 shots.



This was the target:

Doesn't Gojo have pumas in it ? Mine feels like it does but could be wrong about that. If so you don't want abrasive in your lube. Also some of the citrus cleaners are corrosive to blue steel.

 

[Boston Bill]

Doesn't Gojo have pumas in it ? Mine feels like it does but could be wrong about that. If so you don't want abrasive in your lube. Also some of the citrus cleaners are corrosive to blue steel.

Thank you, I was thinking the same thing.

 

[hawkeye2]

No Pumas were harmed in the making of Gojo hand cleaner. Gojo original formula hand cleaner doesn't contain pumice or abrasives. There are other cream style hand cleaners available that don't have any abrasives and may work just as well as a patch lube though I haven't tried any hand cleaner lube.

 

[nkbj]

And over ball lubing works quite well.

 

[B P Arn]

Shortly after I started shooting BP revolvers, I realized that almost (almost) all of the lube gets blown out of the remaining un-fired chambers after the first shot, if the loaded chambers were leveled full of lube at the time of loading. It worked, but most of the lube was splattered all over the outside of the gun.

I played around with fillers, lubricated wads, and reduced power loads, and found no advantage to them. Same for conical bullets.

I now use just a small amount of home made bullet lube (45% beeswax/45%Crisco/10% pure lanolin) placed along where the edge of the ball meets the wall of the chamber. I use full power loads all the time, except for my Spiller & Burr and Griswold & Gunnison brass framed revos, which get babied a little. Plain and simple, and it works for me.

 

[nkbj]

That little bit of lube where the curve of the spherical ball intersects the cylindrical wall of the chamber is what works. When the first charge goes off the majority gets splashed out but what's left in the crevice does the job. Doesn't appear to work better than other ways of doing things but it works.
This stuff in the can is a stiff mixture of lanolin-olive oil-beeswax. You have to smash it in, hence the Thai bronze knife. Lets me push it into the crevice without risk of marring the steel.

 

[B P Arn]

^^^ I use a wooden popsicle stick to work the bullet lube in to where I want it.

 

[M. De Land]

Thank you, I was thinking the same thing.

Good one, I crack myself up on occasion with the dumb things I think and do, usually when in a hurry!