Lead Questions

[MaterielGeneral]

Took the plunge and bought the Lyman Big Dipper. Bought this lead https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pure-lead-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Was finally able to play with it last night. After putting the lead in it and it melted. I then put some beeswax in it, flamed it and stirred it. There was a lot of sludge in it. Did the beeswax a couple more times and more sludge came to the top. Tried pouring balls with the Lee .454 44cal mold and they were coming out wrinkled.(yes the mold was pre heated)

I noticed some green colors in the lead throughout the process. When we were done, there was what looked like a rust film/ring in the Big Dipper.

As per the eBay listing the lead was supposed to be 99.99% or so pure lead. Do you think he scammed me? I paid for pure lead and if what I did not describe being pure lead then I will start the fight for a refund.

Thoughts and comments are appreciated.

 

[Ames]

Was the pot new when you bought it? I think mine came with instructions of what to do before you melt lead in it for the first time. You can get a pretty good crud ring in one of these. Keep skimming.
Wrinkles mean its still not hot enough and/or you are pouring too slow. Raise the temp. Try filling the mold and letting it sit 30 seconds, then open. Recycle the balls and do it over and over. The mold will get a lot hotter. Once fully hot you will be pouring and popping them out as you envisioned.

 

[MaterielGeneral]

The big Dipper kit was new.

 

[Ames]

Try heating the pot to melt whatever is in it, then pour out the lead quickly into a small, hot, cast iron pan or pot. This is so you can keep the lead. Set aside to cool.
Let the furnace cool to the touch. Sand out the crud ring with Emory cloth and clean the pot with lacquer thinner and a rag. Put the lead back in and heat it up. Without the rag.
No harm, no foul (pun). Just get the mold hotter. Its common for me to toss 20 back in the pot after I thought the blocks were hot enough.
The other end of the learning curve is learning when to back off on the furnace temp or let the mold cool down a little. Overheating comes out as frosted balls, sticking balls, and noticing it is taking too long for the pour to harden so you can swing the sprue cutter.
And never hit the blocks. Tap the handles instead.
Any pictures of the sludge? If it makes your lead look like oatmeal you have a zinc problem.

 

[Carbon 6]

All sounds normal to me. Repeated fluxing and stirring creates more "oxides" by repeatedly introducing air, as does the use of a dipper for pouring. One reason many people use a bottom pour pot. Oxides = dross, the scum on top.

Wrinkles are caused by the lead temp being too low. Turn up the heat. and pour faster. A higher temp may also reduce your dross development.

 

[Kansas Jake]

I mostly use lead I've gotten from plumbers, salvage etc. I keep range lead that I've recovered for unmentionables as it it a mix. Ames and Carbon 6 have good advice.

I usually only flux once when I start. I do skim the lead occasionally to remove crud that floats to the top and dump it into a empty can for that purpose. I too often get wrinkles when I start and simply recycle those balls back into the lead. When I pour into the mold, I make sure there is a little puddle on top of the pour hole. It often suck a dimple into the mold as it fills out. That helps make sure the mold is filled.

I agree with the temp being too low when you get wrinkles. I use Lee molds and they take a few balls being molded to come up to temp even when I've rested the mold on top of the hot lead before I start dropping balls.

I vary my pace a bit depending on how hot the lead is or outside temperature took keep consistent balls. This is really something you will develop with practice. I look at the puddle on top of the mold to pace how fast I can open the mold and drop the ball. It will change color a bit and maybe wrinkle a little to let you know the lead is solid in the mold.

I hope this helps.

 

[MaterielGeneral]

Thanks for the replies. I figured out the wrinkle problem. The mold wasn't hot enough. Had to do about 10 of them before the wrinkles vanished this morning. The scum that I had to keep skimming was a greenish color and some was a brownish color like rust. I'll try and get a picture later. My butt or more accurate my feet are cold from being in the garage.

 

[Carbon 6]

The scum that I had to keep skimming was a greenish color and some was a brownish color like rust. I'll try and get a picture later. My butt or more accurate my feet are cold from being in the garage.

I wouldn't obsess over it. Odd colors and dross development is normal. Rust color is very normal, gold colors are very normal. Lead can contain impurities and contamination, as can your equipment, flux and even your environment. The air is filled with dust.

The important thing is the quality of your finished balls.

 

[Ames]

I know you are limited this time of year, but that cold garage is not helping your cause. You will have a much easier time of it in the Spring.

 

[Kansas Jake]

Another thing, if you are using a pot and not a bottom pour, I dip into the lead below the top and dross to fill my out ladle to avoid possible impurities floating. I often miss a bit when skimming dross. I also avoid scraping the bottom of the pot when pouring to avoid stirring up rust etc. into the lead. It will float to the top, but I use a sleeping dog lie approach.

 

[MSW]

sounds as though you're getting things well in hand. wrinkle= too cold, frosting= too hot: adjust as needed... worry about the lead on the ball, not the color of the lead in the pot (so long as it isn't completely disgusting).

things will vastly improve when the weather gets better … nothing (including standing on ice) is colder than concrete. nothing. (been there, done that, got the stupid t-shirt) … once you get warmer weather, or thicker shoes, and warmer socks, remember to wear long sleeves, leather work gloves, and closed toed shoes. of course, don't eat or drink anything when you're running ball. if it's hot, you want to wear a hat or a bandana or something to keep sweat from dropping into the lead. once you're done (all good tings do come to an end) be sure to wash your hands thoroughly.

Now you can ignore all those people who claim that you'll get lead poisoning, along with all those people who claim that 'you'll put your eye out, and those who claim that eating thus-and-such will give you cancer.

Enjoy running ball, then go out and

Make Good Smoke

 

[Carbon 6]

Enjoy running ball, then go out and

Make Good Smoke

He should also take a friend, it's no fun shooting alone and we need to grow the tradition.

 

[Baxter]

My butt or more accurate my feet are cold from being in the garage.

BT, DT in winter, on concrete, in an unheated northern MN garage. Bought a kitchen floor mat - one of the spongy rubber-like things intended to reduce fatigue. Marvelous it was, kept my feet warm, felt good too. Had to be careful early on, the relative thickness of the mat had to be learned when stepping on and off the mat - maybe a 3/4" step-on/step-off.

 

[Carbon 6]

Those anti-fatigue mats are great for standing on in the winter. I sit on a nice padded bar stool when casting. Feet don't get cold or tired and my butt stays warm.

 

[MaterielGeneral]

He should also take a friend, it's no fun shooting alone and we need to grow the tradition.

Oh, I got a friend hooked. He loves the Remington New Army. Now I got him hooked on casting. Plus he wants to get into reloading and casting centerfire.

 

[Idaho Ron]

Colors in the lead mean it is soft, well softer than 7BHN. Blue, Green, gold will all show up. The different colors will show up with temperature. If all you are seeing is silver then is it likely harder than 7BHN. That doesn't mean bad or good that is just what it is. When buying lead in ingots if you don't have a tester, then drop the ingots on cement. Soft lead will thud, hard lead will ring. Forget the fingernail scratch test. I can scratch lead that is 18BHN hard.

 

[dave951]

The pencil test works pretty good.

 

[mooman76]

Sounds to me like the lead scum you are getting is actually lead oxidizing. The hotter you run your pot, the more and faster it will form so try to keep your pot as hot as you need without over heating it.

 

[Erwan]

Maybe your lead is too hot (it seems that is so), the theory say that the lead bath is at 700°F and the mould at 400°F. Of course, without a thermometer and regulator it is very difficult to remain constant. However if you have an electric crucible you should be able to see how to do this by keeping your molten lead on the number that give te best result and by presenting the mold regularly under the casting, not too fast and not too slow. It can be learned quickly with a few lead casts ...
It also depends on the material of your mould which can be either aluminium or steel and in this case (with steel) you will have to stay at the beginning of the casting for ~3 seconds with the bullet in the mould so that it rises well in temperature then, when your bullets will be beautiful, you will have to unmould more quickly but regularly...
For the right temperature of the melt bath nothing is better than a small thermometer to stay around 700F and have lead without oxides...
The best when you are making a big lead cast is the Lyman M25 (temperature is really regulated) but it is too expensive if you only cast balls by little quantity ans I don't know the good position number for a Big Dipper model with a manual lead dipper...
I have a Lee furnace (LEE PRO 4 20LB 220V) modified to receive an electronic regulator like on the M25. The regulator and the captor are coming from Ali Express, very low cost but works well and it stay at 700°F...

Othe thing that can help is to put crushed charcoal or sawdust over the lead bath: this reduces contact with the oxygen in the air and reduces oxidation...

 

[Enfield58]

There is one thing about Lee molds that is not advertised too much. That is you have to wash the mold with soapy water prior to the first use. During the manufacturing process there is a preservative/lubricant applied to the mold. Sometimes that causes the wrinkles even if your are doing everything correctly.

It's a very thin coating and not very perceptible. Yet it is still there. I learned this the hard way.

Take an old tooth brush and scrub every part of the mold with water and Dawn dish detergent. Rinse well.

Dry it as best as you can with a paper towel. In order to get all the water off the mold and out of any other enclosures place it on a burner on your oven on low to medium heat. This will cause every molecule of water to evaporate.