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L&R replacement lock

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erhunter

45 Cal.
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Location
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I was wondering if anyone has replaced their original Lyman Trade Rifle flint lock with an L&R RPL-03-F flint lock? Is it worth the $185 to go from the coil spring to the leaf spring for more spark?
 
If you go this route, just beware that the L&R lock is not a drop in replacement. A significant amount of wood needs to be removed from the lock mortise to accommodate the large leaf spring used in the L&R lock. If you are comfortable with this, you might also want to look up comments by Eric Kewson on this forum. He has had experience with these replacements, and some of them have involved a lot of additional work.
 
My swap was on a TC Renegade, a nightmare from start to finish. Others stated that some of their swaps went easily, somewhere like mine, and everything in between.

My biggest complaint was my L&R lock was sent with a big casting flaw in the nose of the lock plate. I sent it back to L&R and got one that had the cock so far out it was just nicking the lock stop at the top of the lock plate. I sent it back, they ground the tumbler shaft back to where the cock was in the right position, But....... they created a huge burr grinding the shaft and forced the tumbler shaft back in the lockplate with their special press burr and all, the tumbler wouldn't even rotate. Fed up with shoddy work and out about $20 in shipping I sanded off the burr and polished the tumbler hole to make things work as intended. Fortunately the Renegade I put the lock on was bought as a wall hanger and will never be shot although the lock appeared to work just fine when I sold the gun.
 
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Thanks Grimord and Eric for your responses! DO YOU GUYS SUGGEST polishing and tuning my original Lyman lock? Any tips on this?
 
I have installed a L&R RPL flintlock on Lyman GPR, and it definitely is not a drop in. Not quite what I would call a nightmare, but well into the PIA category.
upload_2019-8-15_10-13-42.jpeg

The major installation challenge I found was that the RPL lockplate did not match the original GPR lock mortise. Oversized in some areas, undersized in others. No problem removing wood or metal, but difficult to add back to fill the gaps. The touchhole lined up at the correct height, but maybe back a bit in the pan. Had to remove a little more wood in the lock area than I would’ve liked to clear the springs and other ‘stuff’ on the back of the lock, so I wound up replacing the wood screw on the tang with a machine screw and a metal anchor to reinforce the stock’s wrist (never a bad idea).

Ok, that said, the RPL is a definite functional upgrade to the GPR factory lock, at least in my opinion. The way it cocks (feel of coil vs leaf spring), with a short movement from half to full cock and it sparks WAY better.
upload_2019-8-15_10-48-27.jpeg

The main reason I replaced the lock was that I picked up the kit as part of an estate buy, and the frizzen was missing (found it modified and installed on a TC in the group). An incomplete kit was going to be hard sell, and replacement frizzen was about $30, so I went with the RPL. Recently spotted a new frizzen for the original GPR lock at a gun show in an ‘anything for a $1’ box, so I now have an extra lock.
 
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Thanks Grimord and Eric for your responses! DO YOU GUYS SUGGEST polishing and tuning my original Lyman lock? Any tips on this?
I say it can't hurt to polish and tune your existing lock to see if you can get it to spark better. I know several folks that have Lyman GPR's that say they have never had any issues with their locks.
 
I just bought a Lyman Trade rifle coming in and the guy that got it from Lyman Co. said "Lock was about as smooth as dragging a piano across a railroad track." He fixed the tumbler and sear so it doesn't drag on the lockplate. In a couple of days I'll be stalking the mailgal soon for the package, Will post the lock to see what it looks like.
 
I just bought a Lyman Trade rifle coming in and the guy that got it from Lyman Co. said "Lock was about as smooth as dragging a piano across a railroad track." He fixed the tumbler and sear so it doesn't drag on the lockplate. In a couple of days I'll be stalking the mailgal soon for the package, Will post the lock to see what it looks like.
Who did the the work on your lock? Does he tune them for anyone? If so I'd like his address. Thanks for your input!
 
I say it can't hurt to polish and tune your existing lock to see if you can get it to spark better. I know several folks that have Lyman GPR's that say they have never had any issues with their locks.
The replacement work looks great! Did you use the RPL-05 or the RPL-03? It's hard to measure my lock because of the shape, but on my 2001 Trade Rifle it looks like 5 inches. On the RPL-03 I can also use the larger flints.
 
I have installed a L&R RPL flintlock on Lyman GPR, and it definitely is not a drop in. Not quite what I would call a nightmare, but well into the PIA category. View attachment 13522
The major installation challenge I found was that the RPL lockplate did not match the original GPR lock mortise. Oversized in some areas, undersized in others. No problem removing wood or metal, but difficult to add back to fill the gaps. The touchhole lined up at the correct height, but maybe back a bit in the pan. Had to remove a little more wood in the lock area than I would’ve liked to clear the springs and other ‘stuff’ on the back of the lock, so I wound up replacing the wood screw on the tang with a machine screw and a metal anchor to reinforce the stock’s wrist (never a bad idea).

Ok, that said, the RPL is a definite functional upgrade to the GPR factory lock, at least in my opinion. The way it cocks (feel of coil vs leaf spring), with a short movement from half to full cock and it sparks WAY better.View attachment 13523
The main reason I replaced the lock was that I picked up the kit as part of an estate buy, and the frizzen was missing (found it modified and installed on a TC in the group). An incomplete kit was going to be hard sell, and replacement frizzen was about $30, so I went with the RPL. Recently spotted a new frizzen for the original GPR lock at a gun show in an ‘anything for a $1’ box, so I now have an extra lock.
Did you tap the trigger guard plate for your machine bolt or just insert a peice of metal in the stock? Thanks again!
 
This will give you an idea of what I considered a "nightmare". Moved the barrel back to get the pan in the right place, had to redrill the lock bolt hole because the TC one didn't line up with the L&R socket on the bridal. Had to grind off the back of the hooked breech to accommodate the new lock bolt and had to grind down the side of the barrel to get the lock flush with the barrel as well as fill the gaps in the lock mortise where the lock plate was too small. Almost forgot, I had to remove a tremendous amount of wood for the lock internals.
renegade mock-up 005.JPG
finished Renegads 001.JPG

View attachment 13562
 
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Did you use the RPL-05 and do you feel all of the work was worth the effort? Thanks for your help and I am considering doing this upgrade.
 
My biggest complaint was my L&R lock was sent with a big casting flaw in the nose of the lock plate

I noticed the castings were off on the last two I purchased, I am wondering if the cast is getting worn from which they are poured. I have carved a base out of strap iron and used the LR works. Haven't had any problem with the works, but next time I will buy or make the works. I have a lot of time and not much money, I rate my time at about a dollar per hour ,because I am old and retired. I encourage the young guys to get into some kind of metallurgy, all it takes is the basic understanding of tempering which can be done with a propane torch. The spring material can be purchased or salvaged. Can take the original lock and get the idea of the pattern one needs. Most locks just have a different base plate, disassemble the lock and use the base plate for the pattern Don't be scared by screw ups, just remember what went wrong and start over. Just don't get in a hurry to get to the finished product, It takes a while to get to a visualization of being on the range with a original weapon. The replacement locks are not drop ins. If one has ever had the chance to look an original built weapon that has been truly used for meat and protection will surely find a repair or modification that doesn't look like it belongs, but is a good fit and works well. I also found on a store bought lock I had to harden the frizzen, caseinate. I am in hopes that the younger set will start learning the basics of smithing and don't depend on store bought materials.
 
This will give you an idea of what I considered a "nightmare". Moved the barrel back to get the pan in the right place, had to redrill the lock bolt hole because the TC one didn't line up with the L&R socket on the bridal. Had to grind off the back of the hooked breech to accommodate the new lock bolt and had to grind down the side of the barrel to get the lock flush with the barrel as well as fill the gaps in the lock mortise where the lock plate was too small. Almost forgot, I had to remove a tremendous amount of wood for the lock internals.
View attachment 13564 View attachment 13563

View attachment 13562 View attachment 13563
Eric, you definitely had more grief than I experienced installing the RPL lock on the GPR. My major disappointment was how ill fitting the lock plate was to the factory mortise. The touch hole in mine wound up a little to rear of the pan and the lock mounting screw only required a ‘minimal’ amount of persuasion to get lined up and fit. Wood removal for the lock internals was exspected.

Bottom line, agree with you that the RPL is NOT a drop in.
 
Inserted a piece of metal in the stick. The spring on the trigger plate doesn’t allow drilling and tapping into it.

Somethin’ that may be helpful to someone, the Davis Deerslayers have a hole in the front of the plate to accomadate TC guns that have the re-inforcing tang screw that goes into the triggerguard.
 
Thanks for all of your help you guys, this sure is an interesting and complicated sport! I love every minute of it! Blogman I'll be watching for your post. My Lyman barrel is at Bobby Hoyt getting rebored so I have time to send the lock off if you are pleased what your guy did for you.
 
Don't know if the question was directed at me but I used a RPL-3 flintlock.
I was in touch with L&R and they said I should be using the RPL-05 in my Trade Rifle instead of the RPL-03.I may be sticking my neck out here but maybe that is why you had so much trouble with your lock.
 

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